forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Topic started by: cduckworth on June 01, 2012, 06:35:05 AM
-
When I lived in St. Louis I posted a note in the local 'serious' model shop to see if anyone was interested in getting together to discuss building WWI models. The group (six of us) met once a month on a Friday evening around the kitchen table to discuss our most recent model or book purchases, show 'in progress models' and our finished models. Before I moved to Omaha one of the guys gave me a started Flashback Berg he was ready to sail into the trash can. He'd build the fuselage (and even deepened the rear bottom area), drilled all the holes for rigging, painted it and then ended up stripping the paint back to the bare plastic. After dry fitting the radiator I know why he stopped working on the model, it and the nose needed some serious modifications. I was going through boxes this week, looking for an 'easy' project and decided to try save the poor Berg and finish it as shown in one of the profiles in the JaPo book, the a/c with the 'T' placed in a wide white band on the fuselage and the sand and dappled green/brown finish. Somewhere along the line to PE parts went astray so I plan to scratch the missing pieces. Attached is a Flashback Berg I built when it was first released (see the photo) so I'll use it as reference to make-up the missing parts.
Charlie
-
Here's the Berg profile as I intend to complete to model. Am thinking I'll airbrush the lighter sand color in acrylics and use oils to replicate the dapple finish.
-
A noble endeavour. This looks very interesting, I like the look of it, with a name like Berg I would think its an Austrian aircraft...?
-
I didn't deepen the end of the fuselage on the model I made but my friend had done so based on a GA drawing he had in the box. To answer Red Baron - yes, the aircraft were used by the Austro-Hungarian Air Service.
Here's some history from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviatik_D.I
The best reference is the JaPo book on the Aviatik Berg DI/DII
Charlie
-
Looks like an interesting project Charlie ;)
Andrew
-
Charlie,
Looks to be an awesome project my friend and one I'm looking forward to very much. It's really a crying shame there aren't more A-H kits available in the larger scales.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
-
This looks like it will be a fun project. I look forward to watching her resurrection. With your skills, I know she'll turn out brilliant.
Cheers,
Bud
-
its really not a bad kit. the thing that bugged me the most was the engine. i dont know what type the kit engine is supposed to be but its supposed to be an austro daimler so the whole top is very wrong. i made a new rocker cover to make it at least look somewhat right from the top. all you need id some sprue or in my case some evergreen half round i slapped a 1/8" piece of the half round underneath the front part and shaped it like an a/d then it was a simple as adding some bolt heads.
-
Thanks for the suggestions on upgrading the engine. I thought of changing the model into the version with the side mounted radiators but then checked the GA drawings and these aircraft had twice as many ribs on the wings as the Flashback model. Am thinking to replicate the small brown spots over the sand finish I'm going to try colored pencils to control the size.
-
i like the colored pencil idea. i havde stripped off the paint 2x so far. i havent been satisfied with the splotchy paint job ive done. i have a second one i'm gonna do the hex pattern with d.b. decals stuff. i'm gonna do the splothcy on my karaya aviatik dii. and i want to do this one now.
(http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad15/albatros1234/28413.jpg)
-
The profiles (Charlies and A1234's) that have appeared in this thread are quite distinctive and different to the more colourful and lozenge profiles. Just curious - did this particular type of aircraft serve in a different area than most of the others and, if so, why??
Andrew
-
This looks a very interesting project,looking forward to watching it unfold.
Cheers
Pete.
-
Andrew
The JaPo book caption reads on the model I intend to build that the camouflage pattern was created in the field. There's another profile showing small mottles of two different colors which were manufactured by W.K.F. There is a third profile in the book with another Berg with a sand and mottle finish with the addition of very narrow stripes over the mottles. This finish was on some of the Bergs made by Thone und Flala.
Hope this helps answer your question.
Charlie
-
the austrians just liked those mottled finishes. they did many versions of it in the factory and in the field. not just on bergs. oef albies and phonix craft as well as others. i love a-h stuff .
-
Ahhh, thanks guys, I didn't realise that they where Austrian rather than German schemes - that would explain things!
Andrew
-
I tried the colored pencil over Tamiya paint and while it may work for some finishes with painted spots I wasn't able to control the size of the dots (I was using a dark brown water color pencil dipped in water). The profile and photo in the JaPo book shows small dots 2" in diameter. While I sharpened the pencil as the lead became soft over each application the tip would get larger and the dots grew to 4" - 5" wide. Off to the art supply store today to look at the various fine tip brown and green markers - will let you know how this next step goes.
-
That sounds like that might be the solution, Charlie. Good luck.
Cheers,
Bud
-
A couple of updates, after using the brown fine tipped pen. the ink does smear so will wait a couple of days and spray a flat water based finish to see it that helps.
-
Charlie,
Your camouflage application looks great my friend. Excellent idea and one surely easier than applying the same with tweezers and sponge. I'm looking forward to seeing the second color applied over the brown. Impressive work.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
-
wow, that looks really nice. good idea.
-
That looks fantastic, Charlie. Be careful you don't end up with carpal tunnel.
Cheers,
Bud
-
Charlie, Looks awesome!
RAGIII
-
Charlie;
I hate to have to say this, but one of your dots is fractionally out of place. ::)
No seriously mate, that camo is absolutely stunning, superb job.
Cheers
Pete.
-
I am just getting into the A-H finishes, I have an eduard Albatros I plan to finish in the sworl fabric next which should be a breeze after this model is finished. I used a water color pencil to do the green dots all I have next to to complete the lower wing and the camo is finished. I hope spraying the water based flat finish works after the past two days of applying the dot patterns, if not 'lessons learned' with this method.....
I haven't finished a model airplane in the last few years as I built a model railroad in the basement. It's a nice change to get back into the the Great War's aircraft. If you have an interest in my model RR here's the url. Mopac51.tripod.com/
Charlie
-
Charlie, what brand of markers did you purchase and use to do the "Spots"...???
The spotting Camouflage looks really good and seems straight forward in it's application ..
The Avia will, no doubt, be a fine refurbished Bird.. ;)
Dean ~~ 8)
-
Dean:
I used a brown Micron 05 #1 Archival ink pen for the brown dots and Berol Prismacolor PC909 Grass Green for the green ones. Sharpen the green pencil and dip in water to make to dots.
I sprayed the fuselage with a mix of Tamiya desert yellow, white and yellow for the base color and then applied the dots. After the ink and water color was dry I sprayed a coat of Poly Scale Satin Finish over the entire airframe. Now to find some crosses with white outlines for the top wing and tail. I have three 'T' decals that are close so I can modify them for the sides, top and bottom.
Charlie
-
Charlie,
The camouflage looks great my friend. Not to criticize the work you've done but I believe the camouflage will appear closer to the actual with a denser coloring. Here's an example for you.
(http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t342/GJouette/WW%20I%20Models/ScannedImage.jpg)
Although this is a Aviatik C.1 the camouflage scheme I believe is the same your are doing and is referred to as Autumn Leaf Mottle.
* Taken from Austro-Hungarian Army Aircraft of World War One....
" Autumn Leaf Mottle ---- This finish was produced by the application of three colors by dabbing the surface with paint saturated sponges or rags. The three basic colors used were Mustard Yellow 4B6, Terra Cotta 7D7 and Medium Green 27E8. The resulting appearance resembled the changing leaf colors in autumn."
I hope this is useful to you Charlie. Looking forward to seeing more of this excellent project of yours.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
-
After applying the numerous dots I can only assume the mechanics were bored and the weather conditions kept the Berg in the hanger for a few days so they passed the time with a very small paint brush. I've used the sponge technique and I have to tell you it's much easier to do. I still need to apply the Fokker sytle streaking will probably use oil paints so I can control the application. There are a few profiles and photos in the JaPo book showing this dot pattern or variations near it.
-
Great work with the markers!!!
Steve
-
After I finished to brown and green dot patterns and sprayed on the satin finish I applied some 'Fokker-Like' streaking along the tail, fuselage and the top of both wings. This was done using Paynes Gray oil paints - dry brushing lightly across the surfaces. I the started decaling the crosses and found I needed to reduce the size of the cross on the top wing. You can see in the photos I merely cut off the white on the tops of the four arms and will apply a white stripe over some of the black to reduce the overall size. The decals were pretty old and I hope the top one of the left closes up where you can see it cracking. I little black paint will hopefully help.
Charlie
-
Another view of the Berg
-
Dean:
I used a brown Micron 05 #1 Archival ink pen for the brown dots and Berol Prismacolor PC909 Grass Green for the green ones. Sharpen the green pencil and dip in water to make to dots.
I sprayed the fuselage with a mix of Tamiya desert yellow, white and yellow for the base color and then applied the dots. After the ink and water color was dry I sprayed a coat of Poly Scale Satin Finish over the entire airframe. Now to find some crosses with white outlines for the top wing and tail. I have three 'T' decals that are close so I can modify them for the sides, top and bottom.
Charlie
Thanks Charlie... I was gonna suggest either Prismacolor or Chartpak AD markers for this project.. both are top notch Professional markers, far better then the typical Sharpie markers and come in a fantastic selection of colors.. The Chartpak AD markers have the added benefit of having changeable Tips...
This Camo Job is looking Sweet!! and Now i know I can digg out my vast collection of art markers and do such a Camo job myself.... ;)
Looking Good sir,, Looking GOOD!!!
DEAN ~~~ 8) 8)
-
Charlie,
Now that's outstanding my friend. Cudo's for an unusual camouflage scheme and a highly impressive one at that.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
-
i went and got some markers at the art supply store and tryed it out with the above scheme 284.13 and it looks great. i wanted to do this scheme for a long time but coudnt figure a good way to put those a/h dots on. i'll post a pic to show you when its done. thanks man.
-
Wonderful Charlie - these camo schemes look like fun and you've done a great job.
Andrew
-
Two eyes firmly fixed on the outcome of this one :o
Cheers
BVB
-
Mrs is in Washington, DC for a few days so have had time to work a little more on the Berg. Landing gear added after adding .-15 brass wire to the ends where they would glue on the fuselage. White band unmasked and sprayed Tamiya gloss to keep down the finger prints and get me something slippery to add the 'T's on the sides, top and bottom. I don't know if you noticed in the earlier photo of the top wing but I had to cut down the length of the crosses as they were too wide for the wing. This morning I cut the white areas off some spare decals and added them over the black ends to complete the white outline. The tail cross is a little wide for a Berg (I borrowed it from an Albatros set) but it's close enough. I may reduce the white outline with some brown and green paint at a later stage.
Need to add the details to the engine, side MG and figure out how I'm going to do the struts. I have the large wing struts but the ones from the fuselage to the top wing are missing from the parts. Thinking to add some strength to the model I'll make the vertical struts out of brass stock and place down in the fuselage as deep as I can and then file a deep pin on the top and use 5 minute epoxy to set the wing. I won't make any additional posts until the model is more along in construction.
Rigging will be EZ line.
Any questions let me know.
Charlie
-
Thats a fine looking bird!!!
Steve
-
Thats a fine looking bird!!!
Steve
What he said!! ;)
Andrew
-
definately very nice.
-
that is simply stunning work, i take my hat off to you Charlie :)
michael
-
Very, very nice Charlie, stunning camo scheme.
Cheers
Pete.
-
Charlie,
Outstanding update my friend. The Berg truly is shaping up to be one beautiful little bird and one awesome project. Eagerly awaiting the next excellent update.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
-
Yesterday got the top wing added, engine changes made and MG added. After messing with the position of the top wing for 45 minutes I realized Flashback located the struts between the fuselage and wing in the wrong position. This have the front struts a rake to the back in lieu of being vertical. Why don't we see this before using the 5 minute epoxy glue? Was able to move the wing to the right position (at least closer) and reglued everything. On closer inspection on the earlier FB Berg I built I noticed it had the same issues with the wing position (at least when I compared it to the Datafile general arrangement drawings). Exhaust pipes from the engine are cut from soft steel wire (I initially use Evergreen rod but it looked too small in diameter). The MG is from the end of a broken drill bit (so that's why I save them...?). I thought I could use the 'T' decal from the Blue Rider A-H set but the style just wasn't close enough to this a/c. Next installment will be rigging and final decal work and finishing the cockpit (which will be like building a ship in a bottle because the donor kit was already closed up...).
Charlie
-
Charlie,
Excellent save on the top wing my friend . I'm looking forward to seeing in her full glory all rigged and decaled. You mentioned an earlier Berg could you post some photos of it for us? Or is she the one from earlier in your thread? You never can have enough of these beautiful A-H kites.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
-
Looking great Charlie, glad you could wrestle the wing into a better posi.
Andrew
-
Updates to my last postings, wings attached, prop painted wood and then brushed with Burnt Sienna oils to get a wood grain. Used black decals to make up the 'T's' on the sides, top and bottom of the fuselage. Radiator top painted brass. Now that I have the 'T's on the side I can see I made the white band a little too wide. So I may ignore it (it's a terrible model compared to the latest Eduard kits and I'll finish it and move to something worth building) or I may wake up tomorrow and mask off the band and reshoot the yellow/gray and redo the dots.
For the last year I've been building a HO model RR and everytime I opened a box there was a 1/48 WWI detail parts and rigging material - so I 'put them away' and now can't find the box anywhere. Been through every box in the basement and it still hasn't surfaced so I'll have to go out and buy some fine fishing line.
While going through boxes came up with a DML trihound I think I'll tackle next for the old kit contest.
Charlie
-
Here's my earlier Flashback Berg I did when the model was first released. Kits decals used over gray paint to tone them down...
-
Charlie,
The WOW factor is high today my friend. Outstanding update today. I'm going to miss this thread when your beautiful D.I is completed which doesn't look far away now. In the mean time I'll be looking forward to the next update.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
PS: Your first Aviatik is a real stunning too. The camouflage scheme is absolutely beautiful.
-
Thanks for the kinds words..
Found my box of WWI parts and rigging material this morning and started rigging the Berg with fishing line (did find an empty package of ceramic wire).
After a few short minutes I realized the wings weren't straight looking head-on so I popped the top wing off and will start once again. The Berg right now is sitting in the penalty box until I feel like tackling it again.
Meanwhile I've dug out the DML tripe and will build something relaxing for a change of pace and with a simplified scheme.
Charlie
-
Couple of lovely Berg's there Charlie, good to see these different schemes.
Andrew
-
Charlie, that camo turned out magnificent. She's turning in to a real beauty. She'll compliment your first one nicely.
Cheers,
Bud
-
So here's my last post on the Flashback Berg, I ended up popping off the top wing and making all the struts out of brass so I had some added strength. Initially I'd used plastic strutz and it just wouldn't stand up to the handling as I worked on the model. I normally don't weather models but I think I will going forward with my future builds. I added some light brown to the bottom on the tires and bottom wings to denote a spray of mud coming off the wheels during take-off and landings. Also added a black wash (oil paints) around the control surfaces, engine panels and around the wheel covers. A sharp pencil was used to denote the radiator outline. If you recall when I got the kit from a friend he'd already closed up the fuselage so the cockpit details had to be added later - the seat and control stick were easy, whereas the instrument panel was a challenge to get in the right spot. The cockpit wood details also got a wash of Burnt Sienna. Rigging is a mix of EZ Line and fishing line. Still need to add some minor rigging but I need to get the ceramic wire folks to answer their telephone...
Glad it's (almost) done, it's close to an early Eduard kit with poorly defined details - but since it's the only Berg kit around if one wants to add one to the collection this is it. Any questions let me know. I think a DML triplane is next so I can enjoy the hobby more.
Charlie
-
More photos
-
She's absolutely gorgeous, Charlie. The overall effect of the camo is amazing. I would imagine that it was very effective, if not overly complex and labour intensive. Congratulations on a fantastic job.
Cheers,
Bud
-
Bud, thanks for the kind words. I noticed my first posting was on June 1 and today's the 23rd...22 days from start to finish. I couldn't have pulled this off in my pre-retirement days. I also got some golf in during these days 8^)
-
Charlie,
The camo is terrific! Overall an absolutely gorgeous build!!
RAGIII
-
Very nice, congratulations!
-
Great work on this interest bird with it's interesting plummage ;)
Can we get a pic of both birds together?
Andrew
-
Charlie,
Congratulations my friend she's drop dead gorgeous .Your camouflage scheme is nothing short of amazing as is your technique for it's application.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
-
Stunning work Charlie, brilliant build.
Cheers
Pete.
-
Interesting and unusual birds with great execution!!!!!
Steve
-
very nice work, really dig the finish.
-
Quite an unusual looking machine you've got there, showing tons of patience.
-
This berg looks great. I am glad to see the KuK models!!
-
I recently picked up a HB C1 in 1/48 its on my next up list after I get a triplane finished.