forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com

WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Hints and Tips/Questions about modeling => Topic started by: Pete Nottingham on May 29, 2012, 03:04:18 AM

Title: Never Paint It Black
Post by: Pete Nottingham on May 29, 2012, 03:04:18 AM
I don't know how many of you use this technique, but early on when I returned to modelling, I saw a tip that was never to paint anything black, because black looks way out of scale, instead paint the part a very dark black/grey as this looks more realistic, so I use Vallejo Model Air Black/Grey 71056, what do you guys use?

Cheers

Pete.
Title: Re: Never Paint It Black
Post by: Ian from Doncaster on May 29, 2012, 03:22:00 AM
I like Revell number 09 Antrhacite, which I would mist over the black.
Title: Re: Never Paint It Black
Post by: GAJouette on May 29, 2012, 03:22:55 AM
  Pete ,
Like you I never use black either. Instead I use Model Master Cockpit black, and what remain stocks I have of Floquil Old Engine Black,or weathered black on occasion I'm use MM RLM 66 as well.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
Title: Re: Never Paint It Black
Post by: Pete Nottingham on May 29, 2012, 03:35:00 AM
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one not to use black.

Cheers

Pete.
Title: Re: Never Paint It Black
Post by: gcn on May 29, 2012, 04:02:21 AM
I use either Tamiya NATO black or black mixed with a little bit of buff
Title: Re: Never Paint It Black
Post by: lcarroll on May 29, 2012, 06:11:18 AM
Very timely! I've been pondering what to use on my (in progress) DV. I'd settled on either MM Interior Black (has a slight grey tint) or if I try acrylic then Tamiya XF69 NATO Black. Nice to have reinforcement.
Cheers,
Lance
Title: Re: Never Paint It Black
Post by: Pete Nottingham on May 29, 2012, 06:56:59 AM
I think that the Vallejo one is also known as Panzer Black.

Cheers

Pete.
Title: Re: Never Paint It Black
Post by: pepperman42 on May 29, 2012, 07:18:20 AM
Even using a grey/black I like to shift it around a bit with more white,blue, rlm02 etc from panel to panel depending on the app. Mostly use Tamiya paints and mix them based on whats on hand....uuuuh not very specific was I.....

Steve
Title: Re: Never Paint It Black
Post by: Whiteknuckles on May 29, 2012, 09:31:05 AM
Thanks for the tips gents and to Pete for raising it.
As a newbie to this scene, it's not something I would have ever considered.

Cheers,
Andrew
Title: Re: Never Paint It Black
Post by: Jose Chaica on May 29, 2012, 10:14:11 AM
Tamiya Nato Black as a base...  :)
Title: Re: Never Paint It Black
Post by: Fokker boy on May 29, 2012, 10:17:04 AM
I tend to use Gunze tire black, but I also have some Tamiya very dark gray that I would also consider using.
Title: Re: Never Paint It Black
Post by: petrov27 on May 29, 2012, 11:14:00 AM
Polly S "Scale Black" is also a very good for this purpose if you can find it.
Title: Re: Never Paint It Black
Post by: Pete Nottingham on May 29, 2012, 05:24:01 PM
Thanks for the tips gents and to Pete for raising it.
As a newbie to this scene, it's not something I would have ever considered.

Cheers,
Andrew

Glad to be of some help Andrew, it's something you never think of until you see it mentioned, but I think you will notice the difference.

Cheers

Pete.
Title: Re: Never Paint It Black
Post by: kornbeef on May 30, 2012, 01:16:09 AM
I use black tinted with whatever colour suits whatever I'm painting ie: Take a black painted Albie fuselage, the wood areas would be tinted with a brown or buff, the metal areas with a slightly darker grey even a hint of blue, or green/grey of the underlaying colour (or as it would be).  Blacked metalwork, guns, cylinders etc I tint with greyBlue, quite heavily. Rubber items with red brown.

I've often used panzer grey, with a black ink wash to highlight details, it's a matter of taste really though.


Look at most black objects, see what the natural tint is, like tyres etc, never really black. 

Keith.
Title: Re: Never Paint It Black
Post by: JoeDxMB on June 06, 2012, 03:48:41 AM
I just got a jar of Polly Scale "Grimy black"  that is primarily marketed to model railroaders. I used to use it a few years ago and it was one of the first colors I got when getting back into modeling.   It's a flat,  a water based off black,  almost a dark grey that brushes on easily and does not obscure any fine details.

BTW,  I  sometimes do use  "real" black on certain parts for contrast or, to simulate a "new"  part.

 
Title: Re: Never Paint It Black
Post by: Modelnut on June 06, 2012, 07:40:23 AM
I read in an old modelling book some years ago that all colors should be diluted with white for scale effect. It had formulas for each scale. I build mostly 1/72 scale and have been using colors straight from the bottle. I may need to start lightening the paint a bit. I need all the help I can get sometimes ! My paint jobs are neatly laid down, no seams, no glue globs, but my builds are lacking some "snap".
Title: Re: Never Paint It Black
Post by: Chris Johnson on June 06, 2012, 09:02:00 AM
Another grimy black that follows demarcation lines like a dream when brush painting rubber tires is Badger's Modelflex brand. It's #16-03 in their railway colour selection. You can see their full selection of paints at:

http://www.badgerairbrush.com/Paints.asp

Although meant for airbrushing, I've never found a paint that works so well when painting tires. It just flows effortlessly along the demarcation line, and I use it directly from the bottle.

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: Never Paint It Black
Post by: Trackpad on June 11, 2012, 07:39:45 AM
Here's my triplane with the first coat of dead black black applied. I'll be misting a "lighter black" over it (possibly Tamiya NATO Black, or maybe a touch of Smoke) to get a more realistic appearance and to emphasize the fabric appearance a bit.

(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff205/29selley/DSC_0001-4.jpg)
Title: Re: Never Paint It Black
Post by: Fokker boy on August 09, 2012, 11:28:58 PM
Here's my triplane with the first coat of dead black black applied. I'll be misting a "lighter black" over it (possibly Tamiya NATO Black, or maybe a touch of Smoke) to get a more realistic appearance and to emphasize the fabric appearance a bit.

(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff205/29selley/DSC_0001-4.jpg)

That is one fine looking Dr.I,... I like it a lot.
Title: Re: Never Paint It Black
Post by: Chris Johnson on August 11, 2012, 01:20:10 AM
While this may be a bit off topic for this thread, I have to say that I'm really impressed with that streaked effect on your fuselage Gary. I think it's time you let the rest of us in on the secret of your success. Not that I'll ever come close to matching it, but I'd sure like to try!

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: Never Paint It Black
Post by: Trackpad on August 11, 2012, 09:49:27 AM
Hi, Chris,

No secret, and you can do just as well as I can: it's a decal! Here's the link: http://www.microsculpt.com. I think that you can contact Microsculpt via their contact page and order the streaked decal sheet.

Here's a build review that used them, and it gives a good idea of its use: http://www.modelingmadness.com/review/w1/tc/tmcdr1.htm.

Sorry to break the bad news to you, but the streaked paint on the Fokker...isn't!  8)

PS: If you or anyone wants to pick what passes for my brain for a few ideas on how to use and apply these decals, contact me any time.  ;)
Title: Re: Never Paint It Black
Post by: Trackpad on August 11, 2012, 10:20:54 AM
I read in an old modelling book some years ago that all colors should be diluted with white for scale effect. It had formulas for each scale. I build mostly 1/72 scale and have been using colors straight from the bottle. I may need to start lightening the paint a bit. I need all the help I can get sometimes ! My paint jobs are neatly laid down, no seams, no glue globs, but my builds are lacking some "snap".

Hi, Modelnut,

Ian Huntley was a noted aviation colour researcher. He recommends the following scale/mix ratios to match colour perceptions under northern European lighting conditions:

1/144th scale - add 7% white to the basic colour
1/72nd scale  - add 15% white to the basic colour
1/48th scale  - add 10% white to the basic colour
1/32nd scale - add 23% white to the basic colour

This is reported in Brett Green's Osprey Book, "Airbrushing and Finishing Scale Models." Hope this helps. Good luck!  :D
Title: Re: Never Paint It Black
Post by: uncletony on August 11, 2012, 10:38:33 PM

Hi, Modelnut,

Ian Huntley was a noted aviation colour researcher. He recommends the following scale/mix ratios to match colour perceptions under northern European lighting conditions:

1/144th scale - add 7% white to the basic colour
1/72nd scale  - add 15% white to the basic colour
1/48th scale  - add 10% white to the basic colour
1/32nd scale - add 23% white to the basic colour

This is reported in Brett Green's Osprey Book, "Airbrushing and Finishing Scale Models." Hope this helps. Good luck!  :D

These ratios seem backwards to me. If you extrapolate, at 1:1 scale you'd be just using pure white!
Title: Re: Never Paint It Black
Post by: cduckworth on August 12, 2012, 11:04:15 AM
Vallejo makes a black gray that I use on every project, figures, aircraft and tanks.  Brush paints over unprimed plastic and doesn't leave brush marks. 
Title: Re: Never Paint It Black
Post by: pepperman42 on August 16, 2012, 10:59:14 AM
So how is the little Fokker?....

Steve
Title: Re: Never Paint It Black
Post by: uncletony on August 16, 2012, 11:19:20 AM
Interesting... thanks for the explanation...  I guess that makes sense   :o
Title: Re: Never Paint It Black
Post by: cduckworth on August 16, 2012, 10:49:44 PM
Steve asked 'how's the little Fokker', it's still alive an well as a project.  Will spray the top wing white today and then mask all the white surfaces so I can spray the CDL and underside blue.  Will post some photos.