forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Topic started by: Squiffy on August 29, 2014, 09:09:06 PM
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My first foray into anything larger than 72nd...
(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l5/soddit36/soddit36049/WNW.jpg) (http://s92.photobucket.com/user/soddit36/media/soddit36049/WNW.jpg.html)
After having this on my desk for a few months I have finally taken the wrapping off the sprues and have made a start.
Wow! It's detailed and complex...
(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l5/soddit36/soddit36049/WNW1.jpg) (http://s92.photobucket.com/user/soddit36/media/soddit36049/WNW1.jpg.html)
I have a question for those who have already built one - parts 41 and 42 do not have any kind of locating lugs but have a height less than the frame they fit into (parts 17 and 19). Should they be positioned as far up, as far down as the gap allows, or should they be central?
I want to be sure as I guess the fuselage isn't going to close properly if these are not in the correct position?
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Great choice there Squiffy, I look forward to seeing your progress. :)
As far as I can remember from building the Pup a few years back, those parts fit snugly into the fuselage halves. Without looking at the moldings now, I would recommend a dry-fit including the fuselage halves using tape and liquid mask to hold the bits together,which would demonstrate where best to fit these parts?
With this kit a continuous dry fitting will help - the tolerances are tight and it will help to show where the paint needs to be left off mating surfaces etc.
With WNW kits, a dry fitted assembly itself is a sight to behold...
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I'll echo Ian's comments Squiffy. I don't think you could've picked a better subject for your first foray into 1:32 scale.
Cheers,
Chris
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Thanks for the replies, chaps.
I put my glasses on and found there were some small locating lugs after all :P
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Squiffy, after seeing your 1/72nd builds, I am looking forward to watching what you can do on a bigger canvas! Welcome to the Wingnut experience, I think you'll enjoy it.
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Looking forward on seeing this one come together :)
Terri
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I am looking forward to seeing how you tackle a Wingnuts kit Squiffy, I'm sure that you are going to thoroughly enjoy the experience, here is a link to my build log of the RFC Pup which may be helpful to you;
http://www.ww1aircraftmodels.com/page13.html
Des.
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Squiffy,
I am certainly looking forward to your build. I am sure this is mentioned in Des' build but watch out for the cockpit floor fouling the fit of the lower wing. I think the general fix has been sanding the bottom of the floor and remember a thread on alternative fixes. Perhaps the thread was in Hints and Tips?
RAGIII
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http://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=3147.msg53082#msg53082
It's easy to fix the floor issue without scraping the whole damned thing. Slightly more difficult or time consuming to fill the wing root/fuselage gap.
Cheers,
GrahamB
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Thanks for the links, Des and Graham - bookmarked!
I've got all the cockpit parts painted and some assembled but what's going to bring that to a halt is that I can't drill holes in the frame for the rigging. I have a .2mm drill bit but have never used anything so small before and I now find that my pin vice won't hold anything under .5mm.
Oh and only just I've opened the envelope containing the brass tube and eyelets that I got from Bob's Buckles...
Blimey! I can't see the holes in the eyes, even with my glasses on! I'm going to have to invest in one of those magnifying glasses on a stand.
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Blimey! I can't see the holes in the eyes, even with my glasses on! I'm going to have to invest in one of those magnifying glasses on a stand.
Squiffy,
I'd recommend the other approach, an Optivisor or equivilant, the version you wear (over your glasses if required) Can't be beat IMHO and a Modelling Tool that is more and more common with the "aging" crowd (that is past 12 years of age!!) ;)
Cheers,
Lance
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Thanks, Lance, I'll investigate ebay.
At close of play today I have an engine and a cockpit interior.
(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l5/soddit36/soddit36083/WNWpup01.jpg) (http://s92.photobucket.com/user/soddit36/media/soddit36083/WNWpup01.jpg.html)
I haven't and aren't going to fit spark plug leads. It seems like a right faff for something that won't be seen when the engine's under the cowling and I'd rather quit whilst I'm ahead and not risk messing it up.
(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l5/soddit36/soddit36083/WNWpup02.jpg) (http://s92.photobucket.com/user/soddit36/media/soddit36083/WNWpup02.jpg.html)
I trial-fitted it in the fuselage halves, with the engine mounting plate and the cockpit top held in place with masking tape. It all seemed to line up properly so I'm happy with that.
I'm going to put it aside and do something else until I have the tools to continue and try and do a proper job of it.
I didn't mention which version I'm doing. It's going to be N6171 'Black Arrow' of Naval 3.
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Thanks for the replies, chaps.
I put my glasses on and found there were some small locating lugs after all :P
Don't feel bad, without my glasses I can't even see an entire 1/72 scale model. Looks like a blob of something.
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I also second the Optivisor. I've been wearing one when modeling the small bits for years. Besides, it gives me that alien, geeky look that fits so well with my hobby.
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Looks as though you are having no trouble playing on the same field as the "Big Boys"
Lovely!
RAGIII
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The engine and interior look pretty good so far Squiffy. I wear 4 x magnification reading glasses when modeling, they work extremely well for me and are really inexpensive to buy.
Des.
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Looks as though you are having no trouble playing on the same field as the "Big Boys"
Lovely!
RAGIII
I second this , nicely done so far :)
Terri
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Nice grimy looking engine Squiffy!
I haven't and aren't going to fit spark plug leads. It seems like a right faff for something that won't be seen when the engine's under the cowling and I'd rather quit whilst I'm ahead and not risk messing it up.
Good for you! Build it how you want to, not as what you think others might expect you to. Sometimes it's so easy to push ourselves beyond the point of having fun but this forum is full of different skill levels so it's not an issue here.
Cheers,
Chris
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Making a good start here, Squiffy -
I really like you engine - looks realistic.
I will follow with interest as this is one kit I would like to get my hands on in the future.
Regards
Dave
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I dragged this one out yesterday but I am having some trouble.
The fuselage halves and cockpit top went together with no problem and then came the fitting of the lower wing. I cut the tiny semi-circular bits off (the ones that are supposed to locate in the recesses under the cockpit floor) to get the wing to seat under the fuselage/cockpit assembly and then fixed the wing to the fuselage.
The first, and now unfixable, problem is that the rigging wires that form X s in the cockpit assembly are now sagging with the pressure on the cockpit frame having distorted it slightly. There's nothing I can do about this now but I can live with it as you only see them if you peer into the cockpit.
The other problem is that the front part of the lower wing/fuselage lower projects out at both sides of the fuselage. I don't know what I can have done wrong because everything else is a nice fit - the wing is snug under the fuselage rear and sides, the engine mounting plate is flush and snug in the top and sides of the fuselage and even the inverted V of the lower wing/fuselage part seems to fit nicely enough in the engine mounting plate.
The arrow shows where the lower wing part projects about 1mm out. The other side is the same.
(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l5/soddit36/soddit36128/IMG_20141230_123500.jpg) (http://s92.photobucket.com/user/soddit36/media/soddit36128/IMG_20141230_123500.jpg.html)
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As you were... I have now realised that there are overlays that fit there and take care of the step. :-[
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Yes, Squiffy, you have found the problem!
As far as the cockpit/fuselage assembly fitting the lower wing, it is indeed a bear. On my first Pup, which was for me, as well, a first foray into 1/32, I ended up grinding off a good bit of the edges of the cockpit floor. It was positively Neanderthal-istic. On the current build, I removed the semi circular raised portions, as advised, and went further by scraping a good bit off the mating section of the lower wing.
The other thing I learned on the first build was to pre-drill all the rigging holes on the tabs attached to the struts. I am sure this was just a rooky oversight on my part but I've gone over the present build to make sure all the rigging attachment points are really clear before I assemble all the sub-assemblies.
Also, there was something funky about the way the forward cabane struts attached. I think it's that if they are not set exactly right the cowling won't sit perfectly.
Other than those particular issue, it was pretty smooth sailing and a real joy to build. This second one is going together like a hot knife through butter.
Cheers from NYC,
Michael
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Your build is coming together very nicely Squiffy, glad to see you overcame the bottom wing/fuselage fit issue. Wingnuts were informed of this issue just after the kit was first released but they have chosen not to do anything about it (they were really angry that I had the audacity to actually criticize one of their kits by posting something about it on my website, I was accused of trying to run Wingnut kits and the company down). The main reasons I posted the correction tecnique on my build log was to inform modelers before they reached that stage of their build, giving them a heads-up before they ran into issues, nothing at all to do with bagging the kit, apart from that it is an excellent kit.
Des.
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Des' Sopwith Pup build log on his website was pure gold for me when I came to make my WNW Sopwith Pup. His solution to the protruding cockpit tub section worked perfectly and having his advice on hand before I did anything removed all the panic from my build.
I recommend anyone embarking on a WNW build first check whether Des has done a build log on the model. if so, read it closely as he will advise of any errors and how to fix them.
This is not denigrating Wingnut kits, just noting that some of them do have flaws that could 'throw' you if you encounter them without forewarning.
Dave Wilson
Gold Coast
Australia
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Nice start, Squiffy. Watch out, you're about to be hooked. I encountered exactly the same wing root/cowling issue with the Tripe. In my case, I just wasn't careful enough with the painting of mating surfaces. A little judicious sanding a scraping sorted it all out.
Cheers,
Bud
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Thanks, chaps.
Since I took that rather shaky phone camera pic, yesterday, I cracked on and made progress. I have probably done something stupid by not following the instructions by having neglected to fit the front cabane struts before attaching the engine cowl. I hope they will fit without too much problem.
Do you think I've overdone the scratched and peeling paint on the cowl?
(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l5/soddit36/soddit36129/WNWpup-001.jpg) (http://s92.photobucket.com/user/soddit36/media/soddit36129/WNWpup-001.jpg.html)
I painted the metal parts with Humbrol enamel 'gunmetal', which polishes to a nice metallic shine, and then used 'Maskol' for the larger scrapes. The whole lot was overpainted with Tamyia flat black and the Maskol peeled off to reveal the metal paint. The lighter scratches were done with the end of a pin.
I ran some diluted black enamel into the recesses around the oil and fuel filler caps in order to dull them down and indicate spillage.
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Looking really nice Squiffy. The model can be shown as brand new, slightly used or well worn, how you display your model is entirely a personal choice, what you have done with the wear on the cowl looks perfectly natural in my eyes, you have done a great job simulating the wear.
Des.
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I think the wear looks natural Squiffy, but yours is the only opinion that really matters.
Nice looking work all around.
Chris
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There are so many beautiful builds here. Studying photos of the real aircraft they appear pretty abused. I love the clean builds and the worn appearance builds equally.
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Looks as though you have overcome your issues in style! I love the worn off paint! Looking forward to more!
RAGIII
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Hello Squiffy,
Looks great ;D I haven't built the Pup, but everyone seems to recommend it as a first build - but it does seem to have fit issues! Which is very un-Wingnuts.. If you're going to do another - I loved the Pfalz D.III - super fit - straightforward - and a lovely aircraft ;)
Are you 1/32 hooked yet? 1/72 seems teeny after a biggie!
Regards
Guy
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...I was accused of trying to run Wingnut kits and the company down...
Des.
That's disappointing to hear, Des.
WNW should help to support their customers by offering some tips on their website to solve or at least alleviate these fit problems, rather than sending out defensive emails to those in the modelling community who are.
I experienced the same fit problem on my first build of this kit. I also had fit problems with part A7 (the gun support tube) causing A10 (the top of the cockpit) not to sit properly, and I struggled fitting the centre struts in the slots of A10. Finally, the engine was so tight it couldn't spin properly.
This hasn't stopped me from buying this kit again, as well as the RFC version, though I will be sure to carefully read over the build guides again when I have another crack at this kit!
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Wow, so it's possible that at least one WNW kit is not perfectly engineered , and the folks at WNW are very thin-skinned and cannot handle honest constructive criticism? I guess when you have the writers in the hobby press and modelers all of the world gushing and fawning about how wonderful and beautiful you are, you start to believe your own press. Don't misunderstand me, I think they're beautiful kits, and I think WNW is a good company. However, I would have thought they could handle some honest criticism, and a post on how to correct a possible error, and not react in such a negative manner. It's not like Des was saying that his kit was just a 1/32nd version of a Merlin kit, and was little more than a blob of plastic.
OK, now . . . . Squiffy, you're doing a great job friend, and I'm following this since I got this kit for Christmas. (I'll also go and check out Des' build log as well.) I'm sorry to hear about your internal rigging getting squished, not sure how to check that, etc.
Press on sir! Press on!
Warren
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Are you 1/32 hooked yet? 1/72 seems teeny after a biggie!
Regards
Guy
I wouldn't say that I'm hooked. I like all the extra detail that comes with the size but I'm not sure I can really take advantage of it with my existing skills and equipment.
For example, with 72nd I can simply paint the undersides of wings and they look alright but with this it wouldn't look right to be all one plain colour and shade. I've seen some marvellous work on this forum when it comes to painting but most of it seems to involve using an airbrush. I don't have an airbrush so I've had to improvise.
(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l5/soddit36/soddit36130/WNWpup-004.jpg) (http://s92.photobucket.com/user/soddit36/media/soddit36130/WNWpup-004.jpg.html)
I did that with masking tape and weathering powders. I suppose it would look alright if you were riding by on a galloping horse.
And then rigging is an altogether different kettle of fish than in 72nd...
(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l5/soddit36/soddit36130/WNWpup-005.jpg) (http://s92.photobucket.com/user/soddit36/media/soddit36130/WNWpup-005.jpg.html)
I've drilled the ends of the struts but what's left is fragile and is going to be a real test of patience. :o
I think this kit is a learning experience and if I build another it should be better. I may even buy an airbrush once I've got light and power in my shed. As it is I can't really be spraying things at the dining room table. Of course I also need to learn how to use an airbrush!
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I'm also building a WNW Pup and ran into the same problem some of you have with the fit of the lower wing. I thought I did something wrong, happy to see it wasn't just me. After a long sanding session, it's starting to fit correctly, just have a little trimming and it will fit OK.
Is there a similar fit problem with the Sopwith Tripe? I hope not since that is my next build.
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I'm also building a WNW Pup and ran into the same problem some of you have with the fit of the lower wing. I thought I did something wrong, happy to see it wasn't just me. After a long sanding session, it's starting to fit correctly, just have a little trimming and it will fit OK.
Is there a similar fit problem with the Sopwith Tripe? I hope not since that is my next build.
Yes to a degree but not as pronounced! There are MANY good build logs on the tripe here, check out Buds build, or if you must mine. I found just a very slight sanding on the floor fixed my issues.
RAGIII
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I've fitted all of the eyelets and have now begun to add rigging but progress is painfully slow. The 4 wires shown took me an hour and a half to get this far. At least the carpet monster hasn't eaten any of the eyelets - I just hope he doesn't get a taste for brass tubes!
(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l5/soddit36/soddit36131/WNWpup-006.jpg) (http://s92.photobucket.com/user/soddit36/media/soddit36131/WNWpup-006.jpg.html)
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Press on Squiffy, press on!
Warren
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She is taking shape very nicely Squiffy, for me the rigging is the best part of the build :)
Just one question, what size and type of material are you using for the rigging lines?
Des.
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Hi, Des, I'm using the same nylon 'invisible thread' that I use on my 72nd scale models.
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Whilst looking at the instructions I've noticed that on the picture painting instructions there is a chute for the spent bullet cases coming out of the side of the Vickers gun. Looking at the WNW site shows it clearly on this pic: http://www.wingnutwings.com/ww/v9E3C7E03/www/products/model_kitsets/32016/assembled_models/32016%20Sopwith%20Pup%20RNAS%20-%20Leo%20Stevenson%20UK%20(2).jpg
So, I reckoned I'd missed fitting this part and set about rectifying it. Only I can't see in the instructions where it shows fitting it and neither can I find it on the sprues. I've gone through the instructions twice now and I still can't see it.
Can someone please point me to the page and the part number on the sprues?
Thanks.
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Sorry I can't help, Squiffy! My first Pup had a Lewis and the current build is gun-less!
Someone will be along shortly to help, no doubt.
Looking good! Press on!!
Cheers from NYC,
Michael
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Thanks anyway, Michael. I've been over the instructions and sprues again and still can't find the part, or reference to it. I'm beginning to think that I'm going crazy. :o
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I've looked at pictures of various other people's builds of Pups on here and the web in general and I can't find one with the chute. I guess WNW have used a photo where someone has scratch-built a chute because there is definitely no part provided, which is rather misleading and annoying as the painting guide picture also shows the chute.
I don't know whether to forget it and carry on, or try and make one. Should it even have one at all?
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Most of the main rigging is in place but I'm finding it very difficult to thread the line through the eyes and tubes. So I've taken a break from that and put the decals on. I've also bought a new cutting mat. ;D The old one was dreadful - covered in glue, paint, tea stains and biscuit crumbs.
(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l5/soddit36/soddit36132/WNWpup_007.jpg) (http://s92.photobucket.com/user/soddit36/media/soddit36132/WNWpup_007.jpg.html)
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For me, each build has been a learning experience. I've gotten quite a store of experience, tools, techniques and habits but with each new model, while those come into play (usually), I am always confronted with new things to learn. I've used for rigging: monofilament of various sizes and stiffness, stiff wire, stretched sprue, EZ Line in large and small sizes and a kind of stretch thread (not so hot). I've made turnbuckles from various types of tubing, settling finally on brass, and depending on the material I use for the rigging "wire" will do the loop-back method through a wire eye and tube, or maybe wrap the material and paint it later as a fine Japanese modeler does, or slide on a tube or two, attach the wire (this works best for me with EZ Line) to the mounting points, slide the tubes to the correct positon and lock with CA. Sometimes I just don't bother with turnbuckles, depending on how I'm feeling at the time. I no longer beat myself up for not making "accurate" turnbuckles and applying them at every opportunity. Sometimes I do. I'm working on this...
I would venture to suggest patience, a rigging line cut three times longer than you believe necessary (it's cheap, after all) to make handling it easier, magnifiers – I use an Optivisor – and soothing background music. I also find that various brands of Scottish modeling fortification elixir is sometimes called for.
Your Pup's looking fine. Don't be too hard on yourself.
Regards,
Eindecker
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"I also find that various brands of Scottish modeling fortification elixir is sometimes called for."
Yep, we do have a lot in common besides age! ;)
Cheers,
Lance
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Good light helps too, also an uncluttered background, preferably contrasting sharply with your workpiece.
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Squiffy, Looking great! I like your lower wing staining!
RAGIII
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When I came back to this, I decided 1/72nd was going to be my thing. I found out that a dose of elixir before adding p/e was essential for me to keep my sanity, etc.
Warren
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Well, it is finished. http://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=3517.120
It was enjoyable to begin with but when it came to the rigging it was less so, until I got the hang of it. Unfortunately it was rather messy to begin with and the rest wasn't great.
I'd like to do another 32nd scale kite at some point but unless I come across a WNW Sopwith Tripe on ebay, or they bring out a Camel kit, I'll be going back to 72nd for the forseeable future. I'd like to do a DH2 but I need more practice with rigging before I tackle one of those.
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I think you did very well Squiffy.
Warren