forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Topic started by: NinetythirdLiberator on May 22, 2012, 03:14:29 PM
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I know...I'm an idiot. I want to take a perfectly good model...Roden's Staaken R.VI...and bash it into the Staaken with the torpedo nacelles with cockpits/guns for the engineers, an engine up front, and ladders to two wing gun positions.
This:
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee260/smithdr/DSCN4195.jpg
To This:
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee260/smithdr/DSCN4196.jpg
Turns out that I have some 1/144 drawings and all I have to do is enlarge them by 200% and viola! 1/72nd ready. I figure all I need to do is make a new front fuselage, rear section, and new nacelles with some different strut locations. I can use a lot of the kit fuselage, the wings and tail units as is.
You can't stop me since I've already sawed part of the fuselage. Someone at Roden is queezie right about now.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee260/smithdr/DSCN4197.jpg
Wish me luck!!
Dan
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Well Dan you have your work cut out, better get to it. I'll be watching, not as that will make a difference ;)
Keith
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Mate sounds and looks interesting! Staaken is always a breathtaker... I`ll keep my fingers crossed and I hope you`ll post as many photos as you can!
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Dan,
Holy cow that's going to be awesome my old friend.An idiot no way,just braver than most.I've been following your project for awhile now an if anyone can make this project work it's you my friend. Best of luck to you and I'll be looking forward to the next update.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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I'll be watching with interest too. I haven't worked up the nerve to hack up a perfectly good aeroplane kit just yet so it'll be a good education for me to see how you fellows go about a major conversion project.
Cheers,
Chris
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Rather you than me Dan, a really brave man, good luck with the build.
Cheers
Pete.
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rots o ruck
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Hello All,
A bit more done. I added the start of a front end and cut off the tail of the fuselage and added a lengthened portion. I have a couple more formers to put in but it will look much better when I add the top decking.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee260/smithdr/DSCN4202.jpg
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee260/smithdr/DSCN4201.jpg
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee260/smithdr/DSCN4200.jpg
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee260/smithdr/DSCN4199.jpg
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee260/smithdr/DSCN4198.jpg
Coming along apace, I must say.
Thanks for looking...Dan
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Quite a project you have taken on Dan, but what you have done so far is excellent, I'll be watching your progress with interest.
Des.
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Good start. Youre off and running...
Steve
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Dan,
Quite an impressive conversion my old friend. I'm so looking forward to following this one along too.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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All,
I got the nose at least roughed in. Not perfect yet, but you can definitely see a difference. I also cut out the rear dorsal gunner's area to an angular opening rather than the curved one from the kit.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee260/smithdr/DSCN4220.jpg
You can see I've opened up one side of some sliding doors where I'll put two fellows hanging out just behind the engines and exhausts as well as penciled in windows below for future reference.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee260/smithdr/DSCN4221.jpg
Turns out I can use the kit's cabanes so they are set in just so you can see them and get a better idea of the finished product.
This is getting fun now. And it's not nearly as difficult as previously anticipated. ;D
Thanks for looking!
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Dan,
The Big Stick is coming along wonderfully my old friend. Will you be able to do much detailing to the interior or confined to the cockpit and gunnery stations? Looking forward to the next grand installment.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Hi Gregory,
My plan ( ;D) is to add a full crew complement hanging out of the windows, riding on ladders, at the wheels etc. I still have enough room to make basic innards but...no...it won't be fully detailed.
If I don't like it, I can always build another one. I bet not many folks want these kits and maybe I could get a good price!
Thanks for looking and commenting.
Dan
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She's coming together beautifully, Dan. This is a very interesting project.
Cheers,
Bud
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Interested to see your crew plan. Sounds good!!!!
Steve
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All,
I did a bit more surgery and started fitting the crew and cabin together. I needed to get rid of the turtle deck to do this, but that's ok as the shape wasn't quite right anyway. I used the crew from the Revell RAF and Luftwaffe series with lots of cutting and surgery. I still need to do some reworking since the pilot is sporting ear phones and an oxygen mask!
But it's looking pretty cool based on the real photo from the book I have (see the photos) that the scene is based on.
Keep cutting, splicing, vacuuming and dreaming.....Dan Looking for lots of lozenge... :P
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What you have done so far Dan looks brilliant, the crew figures add so much more life to the model, excellent progress and I'm looking forward to seeing more.
Des.
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Looking good Dan, love the figures!!
Andrew
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The figures look fantastic as you have them posed, Dan. Can't wait to see them painted.
Cheers,
Bud
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Dan,
Fantastic progress my friend. I absolutely love what you're doing with the grew figures especially the grewmen (Mechanics ?) in the nose section. It's great how you have them posed much like the photo of the real Staaken. You know Dan I have the feeling this project is going to be best we've seen from your talented bench yet. Happily looking forward to seeing more of this awesome project.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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I love the two lads sticking out the "window"..."Dit sum vun zay schnitzel?...."
Steve
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Good looking conversion. It kind of looks like fun, but if I ever get tempted by a project like this I think I'd go and lay down in a darkened room until I felt better. :) Good luck with the rest of the build.
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All,
I was off today so got a bit more done. I made a nose cone, radiators, piping, sliding door on the top of the engineer's area behind the engine, new turtle deck and bottom wing attachment points. I also needed to lengthen my cabane struts as I forgot that the Staaken kit has these attaching on top of a rather modern shoe-box-like enclosed cockpit but my bashed R.IV lacks this so they were a a couple scale feet too short. A bit of brass wire and plastic did the trick.
This is coming along well. Tomorrow I'll fill seams, work on the dorsal gunner's stations, make a floor gunner area and maybe work on how the tails will at least fit.
Oh, yeah...must start vacuforming the new nacelles too. Wish me luck.
Cheers and thanks for looking.
Dan
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Dan,
You do outstanding work my old friend. Top shelf scratch building / conversion to date. I'm looking forward to seeing her new nacelles. Will these include a gunners position as well? I'm really enjoying this superb build and look forward to each new update.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
PS: What's her wingspan work out to be? She's going to be one big beast for certain.
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Hi Gregory,
Thanks for the comments ;)! Yes...I'll have one gunner in the tip of a nacelle and one on the ladder going to a top wing station...if all goes according to plan, that is :P
More tomorrow...
Dan
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All,
I repositioned arms and swapped heads/torsos on some figures and added these two dorsal gunners and then painted them black in prep for painting them final colors etc. I hope this will limit the interior details a bit and put the focus on the men! Makes for bad contrast so you will have to use your imagination! When painted correctly, I think they will look pretty cool. :-\
I also got the nacelles vacformed and they need some cleaning up but will do the job. I just put one on a blob of Blue Tac and stuck it on the bottom wing in the approximate position so you can get the idea. They need some reshaping but will be ok in the end. I also added what the nacelle cut outs will look like using a black Sharpie.
Just keeps moving along...kind of scary!
Cheers and thanks for looking...Dan ;D
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Dan,
She's coming right along my old friend. The nacelle is shaped beautifully and should look awesome when detailed out . Looking forward to seeing more of this big beast.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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All,
It's hard to get a good picture so you'll have to trust me that these little guys do look better in real life...especially when looking at them from a "normal" distance. I've forgotten how small 1/72nd scale figures are...you need to over emphasize things to make them "pop". Not sure if I succeeded but here you go!
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee260/smithdr/DSCN4248.jpg
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee260/smithdr/DSCN4246.jpg
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee260/smithdr/DSCN4245.jpg
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee260/smithdr/DSCN4243.jpg
I gave them varied garb thinking the mechanics might wear different materials etc. I also splurged and gave those wearing muffs different colors. My story is that this crew, like many, were a bit superstitious and so each member had a different color neck warmer.
I'm sticking to it.
Thanks for looking. Dan
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Hi Gregory,
Sorry I forgot to answer your question...
PS: What's her wingspan work out to be? She's going to be one big beast for certain.
It comes out to 23 inches. Pretty dang huge in my book. I currently have NO PLACE to display it. A summer wood working project might be in order....
Dan
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They look fantastic, Dan. Just remember, a close up digital photo will reveal things you can't see with an optivisor! I'm always mortified when I post close up pics.
Brilliant work so far.
Cheers,
Bud
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You are the Man Dan!!! 8) 8)
I am watching this build intently as i plan on building both of the Roden Staaken kits in the future...
(right after I finish all 4 of the Gothas Roden makes & I own).
However I will not bash anything, (other then my head against the Table )... ;)
Very good soo far Sir, very good indeedy... :)
Dean ~~~ 8) 8)
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Hi Gregory,
Sorry I forgot to answer your question...
PS: What's her wingspan work out to be? She's going to be one big beast for certain.
It comes out to 23 inches. Pretty dang huge in my book. I currently have NO PLACE to display it. A summer wood working project might be in order....
Dan
Dan,
Wow 23 inches that's huge for the scale. I suppose your summer wood working project would be a hanger for her. Awesome project my old friend and one I'm enjoying each new update of. Her crew is coming along great too.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Lovely job Dan, this will indeed be a unique bird when it's done!
Ian
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All,
I fit the kit stab to new holes in the fuselage. This was because I have elongated the rear fuselage for the R.IV.
I also ended up making new nacelles since the others had an odd shape to the front end. These new ones are not perfect, but they look better. I started trying to fit a couple of engines too and also fastened the nacelles to the inverted V-struts. I checked them against my plans and the wings and all fits just right...I think :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ ;D
More soon as I just got my laser decal film and will start tackling the lozenge next!
Thanks for looking. Dan
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Dan,
This awesome project just gets more and more impressive with each new update my old friend. Beautiful work on the nacelles too.Looking forward to your next update.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Thanks, Gregory...just a couple more shots from tonight. Really makes me want to finish it! What a beast ::)
The middle cabanes will take a little trimming but I'm amazed that it all will fit and be straight too. I will have to add some thicker fairings around the lower struts holding the nacelles in place as these are the kit parts and just look tubular. That's correct for the R.V (I think) but not so for my beast. In fact, after I cemented everything together, I saw another set of inverted V-struts WITH these fairings included in the kit :-\ Oh, well...
Thanks for looking.
Dan
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really impressed, more work than I would take on.
Keith
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Very impressive work so far Dan, looking forward to seeing more updates.
Des.
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Thanks for looking and commenting, guys. Your ideas and suggestions along the way really do help.
Speaking of that...I need some advice. I did a test printing of lozenge fabric from a color laser printer onto some decal paper made specifically for laser printing and put a bit on the lower stabilizer. I need to know if you think the overall color is too dark, just right etc. I'm not looking for what the exact colors were as from what I've seen, it's a hot topic that ruins friendships. :'( I just want the forum's opinions on if I should lighten this overall, leave it as is etc. Shoudl I undercoat with light blue...white? I'm toying with making it all more "blue" but this sure looks like a night camo to me. Maybe it's too dark for 1/72nd?
I also realize that the photo isn't the best and the colors are probably not quite easy to see on the computer... :P
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee260/smithdr/DSCN4257.jpg
Anyway, you get the idea. Your help is much appreciated!
Thanks, Chaps and Chapettes...Dan
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neat looking monster so far
Steve
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Looking good, Dan. You're really moving along, now.
Cheers,
Bud
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Very impressive indeed. You have wayyyy more nerve than I do.
Cheers,
Chris
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All,
Here is an attempt with home-made decals using a color laser printer and decal film for a laser printer. It seems ok.
I need to fiddle with the printer settings as I do get areas where there is no color (they look like little scuffs along the lozenge) but I think they don't look too bad and will be hidden a bit by some weathering.
The decal film itself works well. It's a bit thicker than things we are used to (kind of like plastic wrap), doesn't respond much to Solvaset and I put them on the plastic over a layer of wet Future to help with adhesion. They are easy to trim and not delicate so they move around easily. They come off their backing in only about 10-20 seconds! ;D
I don't pretend to be an expert on the colors but this is the way I imagine they'd look. I wish I'd have removed my black borders around my hexes...too late now and I've printed multiple sheets. I guess I'll do better next time!
Overall, though...I think it will pass.
Thanks for looking. Dan
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Beautiful job on the decals, Dan. They look great.
Cheers,
Bud
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Dan,
Great looking decals my friend.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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The pictures say it all... :-\ I'll get the fuse done tomorrow and maybe start adding the tails (which are also covered). Maybe some markings too? That wing IS big...and that's the short one :o
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee260/smithdr/DSCN4264.jpg
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee260/smithdr/DSCN4263.jpg
Thanks for looking. Dan ^_^
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Dan, all I can say is "Amazing!". Beautiful work, mate, I envy the skills you have on display.
Dal.
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Tiny Update...
Only the top wing left to cover but I have to prep that sucker a bit for rigging. :o I started painting the markings on the tail and will attach the tail to the fuselage soon as a change of pace. Then I'll play with the nacelles again, radiators etc. and start wing assembly. I think the really painful parts of over. Should be a doddle from here on out... ::)
Ohhhh yeahhhh...Dan ;)
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She just gets hugerer and hugerer......nice work!!!!!
Steve
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Thanks, Everyone, for checking this guy out. It is really coming along now. The rest shouldn't cause too much angst...I think. ::)
Here is a bit of progress. I added the tails (less the elevators so far) and covered more surfaces. All that's left is the top of the top wing but that will wait for rigging and anchoring. I also painted on the rest of the markings as well.
I did mess up the tails in that I should have a pair of struts outside of the inverted V's on each side. I just noticed this after I finished rigging. I guess that will wait for the next one!!! Don't tell the judges ;)
Nacelle work is next...Dan
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She's coming along beautifully, Dan.
Cheers,
Bud
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Nicely done with the homemade decals! The wingspan on this aeroplane looks huge in comparison to the fuselage.
Cheers,
Chris
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That's looking mighty fine Dan, great effort and progress!!
Andrew
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All,
I've attached the nacelles after painting them and detailing them a bit. I still need to detail paint the engines, make exhausts and paint the gunner. After that, I'll add the top wing, rig the center section and then it's off to the races!!
All the rigging, painting and detailing is going very well. I'm almost scared about it :o
Maybe I'll have continued luck and she'll be rigged this week.
Thanks for looking.
Dan
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What a beast!
Looking good Dan.
Andrew
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This is cool. I can't get over the radiator placement though. What were they thinking?
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Dan,
Very impressive update my old friend. This is truly an amazing thread to follow. A tip of the hat to you for this outstanding conversion project. As always looking forward to your next awesome update.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Dan,
Incredible project you've got going here and lovely work. I just recently went through the angst of taking a break to build a couple of display cases for my new 1/32 items............estimate the time involved, triple it, and then plan on finishing in double the amount of the final estimated time!! On the good side, a project like this deserves a good and secure home.
Cheers,
Lance ::)
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Andrew, Mr. Fokker, Gregory and Lance,
Thanks for all your great comments. I am really enjoying this thing.
And Lance...any hope of seeing a picture of your cases? I just ran out of room and my wife sort of gets the shakes every time I bring out the Staaken. There is plenty of air cover on her piano so she doesn't need any more!!! ;D
Much appreciated, folks...Dan :)
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Success!
I got the center section on, glued and rigged. I also drilled holes for the top wing gun positions.
I'm pretty excited. Very pleased right now. I think putting the interplane struts in will be a comparative doddle. With the center section rigged, it's very strong. Now I wish I'd put in the correct radiators. I just used the kit examples and they turn out to be different than the R.IV...maybe next time!! ::)
This thing will be done soon. Never thought I'd say that...
Thanks for looking and your comments and suggestions. ;)
Dan
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Home stretch! Go Dan Go!
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Dan,
Excellent update my friend. I do have a question for you though. On the upper wing gunnery positions ,how are they manned? Do the gunners stand on some sort of platform on the underside of the wing ? This is one outstanding thread and one I'll surely miss when she's completed. Then of coarse you can begin that 1/48 scale version or maybe 1/32 or both ;).
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Hi Gregory and thanks for the question!
There was a ladder that went from the back of each nacelle to the upper wing. There was a sliding (I think) trap door through which your upper body went through and you stood on a folding square floor. Pretty precarious to say the least ;D
That's coming up soon but here is a link to a photo I found on the web that help show this position...if the link works >:(
http://flyingmachines.ru/Images7/Putnam/German_Giants/124-3.jpg
Off to Mt. Rainier today but will start adding interplane struts tonight while watching the Olympics...
Dan
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simply stunning work Dan, just terrific!!
This is going to be Fantastic once you've completed it... :D
Thank you for sharing the progress..
Dean ~~~ 8) 8)
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Dan,
Thanks for the speedy reply and link my friend. Precarious to say the least,something akin to gunnery platform on a Caproni Ca.3 on the precariousness scale I'd imagine. Enjoy Mt. Rainier ,such a beautiful place to see. Just watch out for the herds of Rainiers roaming about ;).
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Very cool project indeed.
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All,
I got all the struts in with a bit of niggling. I did need to super glue a very fine length of brass rod to the trailing edge of each strut so they wouldn't bend under the springy top/bottom wings. They are pretty heavy! :P You can't even see them...especially once they get painted. I did get one wrong way around, though... :'(
The struts are, thankfully, all parallel and straight even though they don't look so in some of the pictures...
Rigging tomorrow. I can't wait because then the dang thing will be strong and tight as a drum.
Stay tuned...Dan
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Absolutely brilliant, Dan!
Cheers,
Bud
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Hello Dan
Nice build ..... I really like your lozenge decal and all of your build to ... very nice challenge and a non often kit view on the net.
Is this possible to buy you some night lozenge decals !!!!!! if it break no rule.
Soon I will start my vac-form AEG G.IV and it will be nice to be with some '' camo '' with your finish decal
Have a nice modeling week-end
Marc P
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Well...getting very close now. Except for some touch up and a couple of extra wires here and there, she is rigged and covered. It's dang hard to get a shot of the whole thing so don't mind to expert photography!
I do think my rigging is too thin. They were all (?) (landing and flying wires) apparently doubled and then covered with some leather...I don't know how to do that so this will be it for now... ::) It is very strong, but I do want to minimize handling as much as possible. I do have nightmares from time to time! :o :o
Tonight I'll paint on the top crosses and then start fiddling with the ladders for the nacelle gun positions. Fun, fun, fun :P
Thanks for looking...Dan
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Very impressive, Dan! The rigging looks perfect to me and a that loz really dazzles. Outstanding job, buddy.
Cheers,
Bud
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Dan,
Absolutely awesome rigging my old friend. The rigging size looks perfect to my eyes. Remember if the rigging was actually scaled to 1/72 scale you wouldn't see it without aid. Looking forward to the next outstanding update .
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Great work Dan, your rigging looks mighty fine ;)
You stated that the rigging was covered with leather - was there a tactical reason (sound, reflection, etc) for this or some other reason?
Andrew
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Andrew, Mr. Fokker, Gregory and Lance,
Thanks for all your great comments. I am really enjoying this thing.
And Lance...any hope of seeing a picture of your cases? I just ran out of room and my wife sort of gets the shakes every time I bring out the Staaken. There is plenty of air cover on her piano so she doesn't need any more!!! ;D
Much appreciated, folks...Dan :)
Dan,
Sorry for the delayed reply...too much work at present and not enuff play! (need to really start acting my age and truly admit my working days are over!!) I'll snap a couple of photos and post them in the next 48 hours. The cases I completed recently are 14 inches deep so no doubt a little shallow for your Staaken. They could be easily "scaled up".
Cheers,
Lance
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Hello Dan
Nice build ..... I really like your lozenge decal and all of your build to ... very nice challenge and a non often kit view on the net.
Is this possible to buy you some night lozenge decals !!!!!! if it break no rule.
Soon I will start my vac-form AEG G.IV and it will be nice to be with some '' camo '' with your finish decal
Have a nice modeling week-end
Marc P
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HI Marc P,
Sorry for the tardy reply. I'm glad you like the covering. It wasn't hard to do. I have nothing for sale but you can make it yourself! Here's what I did...
I had an old picutre with lozenge shapes I used to cover a peanut scale rubber band powered airplane. I scanned it, expanded and changed the shapes a bit and added color. I played with the "warmth" etc. until it looked the way I think it should be...kind of blue. I then searched and found a company that made decal paper specifically for color laser printers. It was then easy to print as many as I liked/needed.
The decal paper itself worked very well with a couple of warnings. I think the printer I used ran slightly hot and so much of my sheets have imperfections where no color is seen. I'm just calling it weathering and not getting too worried about it. You can see it if you look closely. The pictures, for once, look better (in my opinion) than the real thing!
The paper is nice since you don't need to coat it at all. Just print, cut out your shape, soak in water and the clear part separates easily. It's tough, too. I could put a very large sheet on without any worry (almost a whole 1/2 wingspan). It moves easily with some water and is thin. I found that it didn't stick too well but by brushing on a layer of Johnson's Klear (Future), the decals stuck well and formed reasonably well around detail once dry. Setting solutions seemed to work a little but the Klear worked well enough to me. It was also easy to make tiny slits with a knife to get air bubbles out once dry and hit those with some more "Klear" or setting solution.
This is what I used:
http://www.texascraft.com/hps/catalog/Laser_Clear_Waterslide_Sheets_85_in_x_11_in_10_Sheets-p-17531.html
I have no affiliation with the company but it worked great for me. I'll buy more for my AEG, that's for sure. I have a little vac too.
Next time I won't have such thick black outlines around my shapes. I think you can just erase those while you are making the shapes from scratch. I'll also make a master that's more random since I think these were hand painted and probably varied wildly.
Anyway, I hope this helps...
Dan
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Great work Dan, your rigging looks mighty fine ;)
You stated that the rigging was covered with leather - was there a tactical reason (sound, reflection, etc) for this or some other reason?
Andrew
Sorry for the later reply, Andrew...I'm not sure why the wires were covered...unless for stream lining? That's seems a little odd considering the rest of this beast!
So I'm open to suggestions ;D
Dan
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Hello Dan.
To bad for the decals I got plenty of bubble-jet paper decals but I do not like the idea of the apply some coating before use it and also at my job we got a very good bubble jet printer for some specific request and I try with some lozenge and decals and when I apply the clear cote it change a bit the rendering of the color '' to much '' so my try was to ask you for your decals because your's .... they look very good to me for a night bomber ( you a Staaken R.VI, and me a AEG G.IV ‹(•¿•)› .
Right now I do not have access to a color laser printer ( exception at my job.... not a good idea if it break ) but I am planing to buy one soon so that will be more easy in the future also I have to make some test with my small dye-sub printer to see if it work the minute I receive my laser decals I will make some test
Thanks for the reply and your project look really good , I like the unusual modeling spirit way.... happy modeling friend
Marc P
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All,
I painted the crosses on the top wings, added the tail skid and put in the landing gear with brass. Tonight I'll do some rigging and painting and add the actual wheels.
All that will be needed is a few more rigging lines, exhausts, guns and two pesky ladders up to the wing gun positions. Those are proving harder to make than I thought.
She's even closer now, though! Looks cool on wheels. And still as huge... :P
Thanks for looking.
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"93rd"
Huge in size and hugely impressive. It's a pleasure following your considerable efforts with this build, keep the updates coming!
Cheers,
Lance
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Dan,
How's your latest masterpiece progressing lately my friend ?
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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the most interesting Staaken I`ve ever seen. Normaly I`m not fond of putting figures into the cockpit but this time I love it. Can`t wait till I see her finished
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That's impressive, Dan. It does look like a dark, menacing beastie, doesn't it?
Dal.
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Gregory, Filip and Dal...
Thanks for all the interest and your comments. Watch this space as she is super close to being done! My out laws are here visiting so model time has been at a premium.
Soon...I promise! ;)
Dan