forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Topic started by: Ssasho0 on May 05, 2014, 09:14:35 PM
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Hello,
this is my new project, Roden's unfamous Gotha GVa/GVb. The main issues I identified at the start are the terrible lozenge decals provided by Roden, the non perfect fit and some inaccuracies that have to be ammended. The issue I wasn't able to identify in advance was the wrong sprue D that was in my box. For some reason I have the Gotha GII/GIII's sprue D and not the one for GVa/GVb :-/. I send Roden an e-mail, but for now there is no answer and with the current situation in Ukraine, I'm not sure that there will be an answer at all.
Here comes my first question to anyone that have the same kit - can you please post a picture of part 10, spue D and some dimensions? More speciffically the dimensions of the plates that are under the engines, as this are the part that I miss! I will probably have to scratch it, but as it is fairly simple shape I suppose it won't be too hard. Here is a picture of what I have and what there should be according to the instructions:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Ssasho0/SAM_2022_zps66b615d6.jpg)
I really like Gotha GVa 723/17 with the white dragon on the side and this will be the bird, that I will try to recreate.
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Ssasho0/0_fbbde_155587c2_XXL_zps4010ef81.jpg)
The next pictures show the content of the kit, the PART PE and the terrible decals. My initial plan was to get decals from Doug Bauman (unsuccesfully for now) or buy Orion models Gotha Decals (sold out) or use 5 colour AVIATTIC lozenge and darken it with dark blue or similar colour. There is plenty of time until I get to this stage so I'm not in a hurry - will give Doug a month to answer my e-mail and then will proceed as I necessary.
As I haven't built anything in 1:72 for more than a year, I decided to start with the engines, as they are more or less similar to the DIII engines and this will help me "feel"the kit and the build and overcome the "1:72 rustiness". I will built the two engines one by one and not simultaniously, as I plan to detail the second one a little bit more and if I like it, to open the nascelle and expose it.
The work on the first engine is close to the end, the work on the nascelle itself is also almost done. The engine was not fitting inside at all, but this is somethign minor and was easily amended. The next step is to scratch the engine bearers for the second engine and detail the engine itself. Speaking of this, I would liek to ask for a diagram or pictures of the engine stand and soemthing that looks like oil tank and or/diagram of the whole thing? I have collected pictures from books or over the net but anything extra to ake the concept clearer will be greatly appreciated!
Thank you in advance for hte help and best regards,
Sasho
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Ssasho0/SAM_1947_zpsd3a61eb3.jpg)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Ssasho0/SAM_2010_zps82349460.jpg)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Ssasho0/SAM_2013_zps2fcadc89.jpg)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Ssasho0/SAM_2015_zps7ff6c793.jpg)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Ssasho0/SAM_2019_zps1e842ec7.jpg)
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Very interesting build and nice start with the engines. Even when it's calm in Ukraine, it's pretty hard to get an answer from Roden or ICM about missing or wrong parts. See if a local retailer couldn't get spare parts for you from US distributors, you have better chances.
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Hope this helps, pics of the top and bottom of sprue D, part 10, from the Gotha Va/b kit.
Dimensions? Hmm...
I measure the chord as very slightly over 24mm, and the overall width of the part, 71.5mm. But you asked about the 'plates under the engines'. These seem to be just under 12mm wide, and as I said, a tad more than 24mm front to back. If you forced me to be more precise as regards those 'slightly overs', I'd say a quarter of a millimetre each time.
Looking forward to more postings of your build of this kit :)
Mark
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Thank you very much Mark,
If I doesn't receive my replacement sprue D for Roden, I will be using those dimensions to scratch the missing part.
Meanwhile the first nascelle is nearly ready, but I'm fighting with the radiator fit atm and then painting.
More photos when I have something to show
Best regards,
Sasho
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Sasho,
A great beginning to what I am sure will be a fantastic build as always from your bench! I am looking forward to your progress.
RAGIII
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You have made a very good start Sasho, the engine looks excellent. I hope you get a reply from Roden, they can be a bit slow though.
Des.
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I received brilliant service from Roden when I received a kit with the wrong sprue; got a lovely postcard from Olga and a replacement no questions asked. Of course this was before the recent unpleasantness....
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I received brilliant service from Roden when I received a kit with the wrong sprue; got a lovely postcard from Olga and a replacement no questions asked. Of course this was before the recent unpleasantness....
I also have had the same great service in the Past and often without a reply. Just got the package and the Regards from Kiev Postcard from Olga! I hope all is well at Roden!
RAGIII
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Hello sasho. Like Bo and RAGIII I have found the service provided by Olga at Roden to be excellent and very friendly - even when having to say that the fault has been at my end, not theirs.
Best wishes
Nigel
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Great work on the engine, Sasho. Hopefully the replacement parts will
be with you soon.
Cheers,
Ernie :)
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About Roden, I just watched the boxes in my stack and they seem to be located in the capital-city of Kyiv, which is in the western part of the country, not in the eastern area where there's trouble. However, stocks of Roden kits at the european whole-sellers are rather low. Hoping it's not going to get worse.
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Beautiful work on the engines, SsashoO. I'm looking forward to seeing the rest of this.... good luck with the spares!
Ian
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The engine is very well done Sasho.
Martin
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It just so happens SsashoO that I have one of these kits which I started about a year ago and has since sat on the floor of my room in its box - I do not seem to be able to motivate myself to build a kit at the moment. I intend to follow this build and will openly and unashamedly use some of your ideas when I do finally get around to it. One reason why I had stopped was the issue of the lozenge transfers (decals): like you I fancy the dragon insignia, and I had thought(?) of hand painting the lozenges…… However if you have any luck in getting transfers I would be very interested too as I am not into masochism.
An excellent start on the engines - that is a standard I will struggle to achieve.
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IMO, hand-painting lozenges on a 1/72 model is probably impossible, at least if you plan to get something accurate. A good workaround is home-printing your own lozenges if you have damaged the decal sheets or can't find the kind of lozenges you need. I print lozenges on Experts Choice clear decal which suits very well for this purpose as it is strong and sticks very well to the surface details.
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Thank you very much for the "tumbs up" guys, I appreciate it!
I sent an e-mail to Roden and received an answer from Olga on the next working day - the replacement sprue should be on its way to me already. Now thats what I call excellent customer service! I really hope Roden shape up and rise again with new and better WWI kits.
While working on the Gotha I also started working on a WNW Fokker EIV and the difference is just immense, BUT I mus confess that for now I enjoy the Gotha build more. It is more challenging and every detail needs my full attention, while the WNW kit just fall together and is 100% predictable! While enjoying the build immensly as of now, I feel that there will be a point where I will have a burn-out (is this the right term?) and then the WnW kit will come to a rescue ;)
Those few days I finished the second engine and the nascelles, scraped the fuselage interior as part of the preparation for the PE and interior. Not much to show, but a post anyway, just to share my thoughts regarding Roden and the kit as a whole. I'm little worried if I thinned it enough or not, as the oils on the interior walls will get the some of the thickness back. If they don't fit I will have to crae the oil and thin more and apply oil colours and wait days to cure ..again. Generally the build is going veery slowly as no 2 parts fit from first time :)
On the lozenge issue, I send Doug an e-mail but there is no answer, so I will be going with Aviattic 5 colour Lozenge and darken it with blue or violetish until a satisfactory result is obtained.
I have a question to you: what was the colour of the Gotha tunnel? From what I read, it was made from vaneer like the fuselage front, but was it left in "plain wood" or painted or maybe covered in Lozenge? If there is no definite answer, I will probably paint it "wood" as I really like the loo of the wooden parts :)
Thank you again for the comments and as always more comments, questions or constructive critiscism are more than welcome!
Best regards,
Sasho
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Ssasho0/SAM_2028_zps6aceab55.jpg)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Ssasho0/SAM_2027_zpsf1807b75.jpg)
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NICE UPDATE. Your engine and nacelles are looking terrific! I agree about Rodens customer service. They are without a doubt, one of the best in customer service!
RAGIII
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Great news from Roden.
Those engines look very nice indeed, Sasho, I'm looking forward to seeing this one come along.
Ian
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A very nice work Sasho.
Martin
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Excellent work so far Sasho. Those engines really look the part. I agree with you that the fit of parts could be better, but they are not too bad.
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I'm bored waiting for the oils to cure, so micro update - woodgrain :)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Ssasho0/SAM_2139_zps0192d631.jpg)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Ssasho0/SAM_2138_zpsce5da367.jpg)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Ssasho0/SAM_2137_zpse981e301.jpg)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Ssasho0/SAM_2143_zps719a0352.jpg)
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I like the "warm" aspect of your wood. Which oil colors d'you use?
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Very nice wood colour you used Sasho, it will look great once it all starts to go together. Excellent news that Roden got back to you so quick, and like you I would like to see Roden back making 1:32 scale WW1 aircraft models again.
Des.
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Your wood looks very good Sasho.
Martin
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Very nice wood colour you used Sasho, it will look great once it all starts to go together. Excellent news that Roden got back to you so quick, and like you I would like to see Roden back making 1:32 scale WW1 aircraft models again.
Des.
Iagree on both comments! Excellent wood shade and if Only Roden would get back in the Game!
RAGIII
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I was too busy during the last months working on my WnW Fokker EIV and a 1:24 Lamborghini Aventador by Aoshima.
Now when both projects are more or less complete I'm back on this stalled project. I must confess that I nearly gave up on it, as the Roden supplied decals were terrible and there was no other option. Now with the new Aviattic night Lozenge, expected in the next week, I came back to it and renewed the work.
As expected the Roden kit is full with all the different kind of challanges and when you go over one, the next one comes right behind it :) Still the build is fun so far.
I scratche something that looks like a tank and more or less finished the interior. I still have to add the steering wheel (it is ready), nut first I have to finish closing the pilots....errr....cockpit.
The parts ar enot really fitting well one with another and I'm using a lot of CA glue as putty or Tamiya putty, or whatever I can use to close the sometime enourmous gaps between the parts.
PART's PE is not bad, but most of its parts will stay unused.
Here are the pictures of my so far friendly fight with this kit:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Ssasho0/Gotha%20GVa/SAM_3571_zps494c7aa7.jpg)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Ssasho0/Gotha%20GVa/SAM_3575_zps4320dd0e.jpg)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Ssasho0/Gotha%20GVa/SAM_3573_zps9d79368f.jpg)
While waiting for the decals, I decided to try the wings, imagine my ""surprise when I saw that Roden, doesnt provided any pins or anything for gluing those BIG wings to each others. So I crafted somethign like a jig so the holes are opposite to each other and installed two copper pins in each wing. Now the the wing assembly will be at least possible :) Thank you Bo Monroe for the idea
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Ssasho0/Gotha%20GVa/SAM_3624_zpse1ff7f64.jpg)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Ssasho0/Gotha%20GVa/SAM_3633_zps6d225016.jpg)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Ssasho0/Gotha%20GVa/SAM_3632_zpsadf9524f.jpg)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Ssasho0/Gotha%20GVa/SAM_3630_zpsdb6d0fe0.jpg)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Ssasho0/Gotha%20GVa/SAM_3629_zpse38a80d9.jpg)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Ssasho0/Gotha%20GVa/SAM_3625_zpsc56a5deb.jpg)
As usual any comment, questions, constructive criticism are more than welcome!
Best regards,
Sasho
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This is starting to come together very nicely, you did a great job on the tiny instrument panel and all the wood looks excellent.
Des.
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Very good update after a long time.
Martin
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This is beginning to look very good - you are making much better progress than I am with mine. In fact I have pretty well given up on mine - seeing yours might kick-start me again.
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Looking excellent. The wing assembly looks like it was difficult but you seem to have overcome the issues!
RAGIII
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Very cool Sasho!
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Nice job on those details :)
Terri
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Keep at it! I've got one or two Gothas in the stash, so I too am going to be following this closely.
Warren
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This Kit is apparently a bit of a problem solving exercise, Sasho, but your efforts are paying off! Nice work on the wing assembly shortfalls and the interior work is looking very good. keep at it!
Cheers,
Lance
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Ill be following this closely as I have Roden's G.IV, I was going to build it before attempting Airfix's HP 0/400 but now im thinking the Airfix kit might be simpler. Anyway you're doing a fantastic job, keep it up!
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I am happy, as the problems I encountered when trying to build the GIV now seem not to be self-enduced, but kit-specific. I couldn't get those large wings aligned properly, and in the end I scrapped the complete kit.
I wish you good luck.
Stefan
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THank you guys for the comments, they are definately helping me keep my decision to finish this one :)
Last week I was busy with many putty and sanding sesions followed by layers of Mr. SUrfacer and then again putty/sanding, but now I think it looks they weasy it supposed to be looking :). While I'm waiting for Aviattic night Lozenge, I decided to do some preshading. It is a bit dark, but I just don't know how trasnparent the decals are going to be, so my plan is to spray with a bit of gray if the preshading is too strong.
EDIT: Richard, send those decals already, I can't wait to get them!
After the decals I will have to put some surface details and prepare everything for the rigging. I'm already "brainstorming", identifying potential issues and preparing preventive and corrective action plans, but ofcourse its not possible to think of everything. To be honest the part which really scares me is putting the top wing on - this will be the step that willd efine if this build is going to be succesfull or trashed!
As usually any comments, questions, recomendations or constructive criticism are most welcomeQ
Here are the pistures:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Ssasho0/Gotha%20GVa/SAM_3678_zps313dae6b.jpg)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Ssasho0/Gotha%20GVa/SAM_3693_zpsbc32c6c4.jpg)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Ssasho0/Gotha%20GVa/SAM_3692_zps12be2df0.jpg)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Ssasho0/Gotha%20GVa/SAM_3695_zps2dc76e26.jpg)
Bets regards,
Sasho
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a little update, the Aviattic decals are here and I already started laying them :) Its not easy and I just can imagine how bad is it to put the Roden original ones on such a big surface!
Before the decals, I mixed Tamiya XF-18 medium blue with gloss white XF-2 and gloss clear in 1:1:1 ratio and lightened the whole aircraft - it was too dark. The preshading is still visible but way, way more subtle. It also created a glossy surface for the decals, but I nevertheless polished it with some Tamiya polishing compound - to get rid of the dust.
The wings were glued, and the brass pins, that were installed, really did what they were supposed to be doing. The dihedral was set a bit higher angle as when the top wing is glued it will sag a bit. I don't know if it is enough or not, only time will tell! Some putty and sanding were required of course and after this the decalling commenced. I’m just starting to lay the decals, so not much to be shown here, but I plan to decal the wings and fuselage, then to run the control wires along the fuselage and put all the eyelets on the wings, after the decals. Then I will mount the rigging wires on the upper wing and just then glue the engine nacelles and the upper wing.
Not sure if this will work, but if any problem arise I will be dealing with it on the go.
While checking the pictures I came to the conclusion that there was no lozenge under the engines and it was a medium blue plate. This can be seen on the archive photo bellow.
Here are few bad and dark pictures…I should finally set up a photo boot or at least get some additional light for taking pictures!
Any comments, questions, recommendations and constructive criticism are more than welcome!
Best regards,
Sasho
gluing the wings and settign the dihedral :)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Ssasho0/Gotha%20GVa/SAM_3868_zpsbd779665.jpg)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Ssasho0/Gotha%20GVa/SAM_3869_zpsa0cf8549.jpg)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Ssasho0/Gotha%20GVa/SAM_3878_zpscb71393d.jpg)
the decalling commenced
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Ssasho0/Gotha%20GVa/SAM_3879_zpsb23a1a1f.jpg)
here I think it is visible that there is no lozenge under the engine
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Ssasho0/Gotha%20GVa/Untitled_zps6a1419e3.png)
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an update day for me :)
I was nit happy with the way the lozenge decals were laid, so I removed them, repainted the whole aircraft, nearly pristine white, the preshading was really barely visible, then put the decals again :( This is terrible, so use white under Aviattic decals, otherwise you may need to re do them like me!
Now the colours are way more visible and vivid, glossed it and then started to put the ribtapes. The upper wing is ready and I am working on the lower wings at the moment. I also repainted one of the engine nascelles and will repeat it with the second one in the next days.
The Roden supplied decals foor the markings are terrible, they desintegrate and broke into pieces, so after Aviattic it was a real shock and back to reality :) Managed to put them on the port side, not perfectly but as good as possible. I don;t wanted to attempt anything with them in fear of breaking into smaller pieces that I can glue back together!
Here are few pics, feel free to comment, ask questions, give recomendations or express constructive criticism :)
Best regards,
Sasho
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Ssasho0/SAM_4006_zpshs2mtxga.jpg)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Ssasho0/SAM_4007_zpszjt0byal.jpg)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Ssasho0/SAM_4008_zpsvredfmz3.jpg)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Ssasho0/SAM_4010_zpst3arwzbh.jpg)
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Very beautiful work with the decals.
The engine is great Sasho.
Martin
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Nice !
When working Roden decals I will bring out the airbrush and spray on a few coats of Microscale decal film and it takes care of them breaking up in the water and such .
You can use a gloss coat of lacquer , but don't spray all the decal at once . Only spray the ones you plan to use with in a modeling session . Once the decal have been spray , let them sit for 30 minutes . You want the lacquer to be pliable Once it has full set it hardens up to much and you're right back to square one again , just with more decal fragments .
Man , that's going to be a lot of rib tapes !
Terri
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Excellent work on the Lozenge application! I am sure you will recover from your issues with the Roden Decals!
RAGIII
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Spectacular modelling! I like it very much.
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Love this build. I have the G. V I am looking to tackle for a group build. On the camo, since the fabric was put onto the plywood body of the aircraft and also the flight surfaces, do you think it would appear different in shade/tone? I can see painting the wings white but I wonder if the body should be painted a light tan color due to the effect of the wood being underneath.
simon
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Yes Sasho, I hope you haven't given up on this build yet.
Warren
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Thank you guys, well the build is on-hold as I am building other things and I just can't get in the mood for building a Roden kit, but I will finish it one day!
@Phalz_phan: well you can of course, but I don't think that it is realistic that the fuselage applied loz have been transparent. The transparency imo comes from the air between the upper and lower surface of the wings. The one applied to the wood wouldn't be transparent at all. I can be mistaken ofcourse!
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Sorry to hear this one is on hold as it was coming along beautifully!
RAGIII
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Sasho,
Late to the party again. Outstanding works always come off your bench my old friend. I'm quite impressed with the Master Class skills and craftsmanship you've shared! Well Done and I'm looking forward to seeing this projects return.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette