forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Hints and Tips/Questions about modeling => Topic started by: Jim on May 09, 2012, 07:33:08 PM
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Just wondering what fishing line to use for getting the diameter of the rigging to scale. I believe I read somewhere (probably on Des's rigging basics webpage) that the line should be around 0.12mm in diameter, but since fishing line is measured in breaking strength, not diameter, can anyone suggest what strength line to use?
Thanks in advance
Jim
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Hi Jim, I use Maxima Chameleon 2lb (0.12mm) fishing line for my 1/32 models.
Cheers
Pete.
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Jim,
Maybe this chart will help you out a bit. At least it should give you a
place to start according to the scale you are working with.
Jim
(http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr169/Jim652/IMG.jpg?t=1336559307)
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As with Pete I use 2lb fishing line for my 1/32 builds. Saying that the last couple have been done with knit in elastic
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2lb maxima
;) ;) ;)
(http://www.chapmansangling.co.uk/hires/maxima/maxima-chameleon-100m-spool2.jpg)
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O.K., since I make my Living at Flyfishing (hence my moniker is "flyjunkie") I will explain some basics of Tippet/Leader nomenclature..
Monofilament & Fluorocarbon Tippet is measured not only in breaking strength but diameter. the Diameters are given soo that Anglers who build their own tapered leaders can match diameters closely as they build their leaders. all top quality spools of tippet/leader material will contain both breaking strength and Diameter measurements on the label.
There is not, unfortunately, any standardization of Diameter verses Breaking strength.. in fact as the technology improves in exuding Mono or Fluorocarbon. we've seen a reduction in Diameter verses breaking strength.
Monofilament breaks down / rots at a quicker rate then fluorocarbon does.. average "shelf Life" is 11/2 ~ 2 years from date of purchase.. this Breaking down / rotting is the result of exposure to UV rays, oxygen, gasoline, dirt, etc... rotten Monofilament looks Flat, Opaque, remains coiled and feels dry and rough, it also snaps with little or no pressure. Fluorocarbon breaks down/rots a much slower rate.. lasting up to 10 years..
Fluorocarbon also will be of a thinner diameter per breaking strength then Monofilament...
Also, the stated breaking strength / Pound test is just a estimate, often lower quality lines break at less then stated pound test and quality lines often break at a higher then stated pound test. Exception is when the line is stated as meeting IGFA standards.. the I.G.F.A. is the International Gamefish Fishing Association. they keep the World records of largest Fish caught, Line class records as well.. their rules state that a Line in a particular Line class must actually break at the stated amount.. soo any line that claims it is IGFA certified will break at the stated pound test breaking strength, not below and not above the stated breaking strength..
don't know if any of this is helpful to Model building, but I think it might be.... ;)
DEAN ~~~ 8)
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You sent me scurrying down to a tackle box that I haven't used since 1994 when our cottage was sold. I checked some spools of mono and it all seems to be as strong as the day I put it away. Is that because it's stored in a dark, cool basement?
If the mono is painted, such as the rigging on my models, will that inhibit rot?
Cheers,
Chris
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You sent me scurrying down to a tackle box that I haven't used since 1994 when our cottage was sold. I checked some spools of mono and it all seems to be as strong as the day I put it away. Is that because it's stored in a dark, cool basement?
If the mono is painted, such as the rigging on my models, will that inhibit rot?
Cheers,
Chris
Chris, since we store our Models inside, the breakdown /Rot aspect is probably reduced.. What Really Destroys Monofilament is UV Rays and direct or defused Sunlight.. Storing Mono in a dark Cool basement will certainly extend the life of the Mono. as long as that stored Mono is not Opague/Milky in color or any of the other tell tale signs, you should be OK.. ;)
I think a thin coat of paint will certain slow down the break down /rot aspect...
I am certain that the Mono we use for Riggin will last a great deal longer then when i use it for fishing..... :)
DEAN ~~~ 8)
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Now theres some serious science going on here......
Steve
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Now theres some serious science going on here......
Steve
Maybe Steve.. but also could just be that I've spent well over 40 years of my 51 years on this Planet fishing as often as I possible can.. One tends to learn some stuff along the way... ;)
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There are some very curios facts here. I don't want to start a war here and I fully believe what you are saying about the break down rate of monofilament, but what confuses me is the fact that my father was a professional fisherman, he had trawlers and has been hand fishing for his whole life, he is still fishing today at 89 years of age so his fishing experience is well over 75 years. Now, what confuses me is my dad is still using fishing line which is over 50 years old and is as good today as the day he purchased it, I don't know if there was a diffenece in the line back then compared to today. I also have some models I built well over 45 years ago where I used mono as rigging, (I stole a bit of my dad's line) it is still taut and the same colour as back then, maybe the modern monofilament lines are not as good as the old stuff, just a thought.
Des.
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There are some very curios facts here. I don't want to start a war here and I fully believe what you are saying about the break down rate of monofilament, but what confuses me is the fact that my father was a professional fisherman, he had trawlers and has been hand fishing for his whole life, he is still fishing today at 89 years of age so his fishing experience is well over 75 years. Now, what confuses me is my dad is still using fishing line which is over 50 years old and is as good today as the day he purchased it, I don't know if there was a diffenece in the line back then compared to today. I also have some models I built well over 45 years ago where I used mono as rigging, (I stole a bit of my dad's line) it is still taut and the same colour as back then, maybe the modern monofilament lines are not as good as the old stuff, just a thought.
Another thought which may need to be considered, does painting the mono extend the life?
Des.
No war Des.. I just understand Mono from my Flyfishing.. perhaps the line your Father is using is Commercial fishing grade??? is it Mono or is it Braid??? I Just understand Mono from my experience and that of alot of other Flyfishers and Conventional/ Spinning / Casting Anglers : Mono breaks down/ rots from exposure to Sunlight and UV rays... we usually inspect our Mono leaders and tippet spools and find, on average that around 2 years or slightly less it starts to suffer .. sometimes it will last longer and can if it's kept out of sunlight for extended periods of time So your Models of 45 years ago , their Rigging can remain in great shape...
Fishing Mono, that you buy in a tackle shop, if exposed to sunlight, UV Rays and other items I mentioned will not last for a long time.. Which explains the appeal of fishing with Fluorocarbon nowadays.. the stuff lasts a long time, so while one pays double the amount one pays for Mono, you actually are saving money because of the Life of Fluorocarbon...
I'd hazard a guess that the Line Your father uses for Commercial Fishing is of a different chemical make up then Sportfishing Mono.... a Co Polymer perhaps....
No worries Des, no worries at all.... ;D
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So part two of the question is -Does the fluorocarbon have the same look,diameter and handling qualities when it comes to rigging aircraft?
Steve
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When you talk about the qualities of Monofilament and the fact that it breaks down under UV and sunlight, is this the fact that it is outdoors? And would the life of the Monofilament on models that are kept indoors be extended as they are out of the direct source of UV rays, because even if you work in an office behind glass in direct sunlight you don't get a suntan. Just a thought.
Cheers
Pete
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I work in a tower with 360 degrees of windows and Im still a pasty white guy.....
steve
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Yes, the break down of Monofilament from UV light rays and Sunlight is because it's Outdoors. If the Mono is kept indoors it's "self life" will be considerably longer.. Even in a Building with skylights and plenty of windows, the Monofilament will last a Great deal longer.
Even if the glass is not listed as UV protective, the glass still defuses UV light rays a small percentage.. many modern Office buildings have UV protection windows installed - and short of asking about this, One would never notice..
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So part two of the question is -Does the fluorocarbon have the same look,diameter and handling qualities when it comes to rigging aircraft?
Steve
Steve,
I used 2 lb test flourocarbon for my first rigging job as it was the only 2 lb test mono I could find. While it's not as limp as Maxima Chameleon, it worked quite well for me but does tend to coil much more than Maxima. Once I tried Maxima, I was sold on it. Unfortunately, I can't find it in 2 lb test locally in the Oshawa area so I order mine from Cabela's in the U.S.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Maxima-Chameleon-One-Shot-Spool/702118.uts?Ntk=AllProducts&searchPath=%2Fcatalog%2Fsearch.cmd%3Fform_state%3DsearchForm%26N%3D0%26fsch%3Dtrue%26Ntk%3DAllProducts%26Ntt%3Dmaxima%2Bchameleon%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26WTz_l%3DHeader%253BSearch-All%2BProducts&Ntt=maxima+chameleon&WTz_l=Header%3BSearch-All+Products
I haven't made it up to BassPro in north Toronto but if any place has 2 lb Maxima here in Ontario, that should be the place. Ordering from BassPro out of the U.S. is ridiculously expensive when it comes to their shipping charges.
I'll check both the flourocarbon and Maxima on my digital caliper to see what their respective diameters are.
Cheers,
Chris
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I drive past Bass Pro every day on my way to work. I will check for it.
Steve
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I drive past Bass Pro every day on my way to work. I will check for it.
Steve
I'll be interested to hear if they stock it.
Cheers,
Chris
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http://www.basspro.com/Maxima-Line-Maxi-Spool/product/2347/147602 (http://www.basspro.com/Maxima-Line-Maxi-Spool/product/2347/147602)
Looks like Bass Pro does stock the Maxima Chameleon...
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Thanks Fly J (Hey youre a CA guy - you get Fly J),
Chris, I will pick some up tomorrow morning on the way home from work if its in stock. Its on me so long as you use it on the Se5a - there gauntlet thrown down!!!!
Steve
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Thanks Fly J (Hey youre a CA guy - you get Fly J),
Chris, I will pick some up tomorrow morning on the way home from work if its in stock. Its on me so long as you use it on the Se5a - there gauntlet thrown down!!!!
Steve
Thanks for the offer Steve but save your cash as I have three spools on hand now which will last me a long time at my building speed. Here's hoping they have it for you!
Cheers,
Chris
http://www.basspro.com/Maxima-Line-Maxi-Spool/product/2347/147602 (http://www.basspro.com/Maxima-Line-Maxi-Spool/product/2347/147602)
Looks like Bass Pro does stock the Maxima Chameleon...
They have it for on-line sale but to ship it to Canada costs a fortune as their shipping charges are outrageous. Cabela's on the other hand, are reasonable.
Cheers,
Chris
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No prob.