forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => WW1 Aircraft Information/Questions => Topic started by: JoeDxMB on August 05, 2013, 06:17:51 AM
-
I'm referring to the two small dark squares on the inside fuselage above both seats of this Morane Saulnier - L
They are included in the PE set of the kit I'm building but they are just abstract images on them and do not really appear to be anything mechanical
BTW, A map is positioned in in front of the pilot in the "L"
-
They look like map pockets to me, but that's just a shot in the dark.
-
That's what I thought at first but, they do not appear to be.
-
Celon windows perhaps? Maybe a field mod to help with training/observation. I say that as they seem to have the celon type of reflections on them.
On blowing up the pic you can make out the bracing wires in front of them plus theres no evidence of a shadow around them so they are not proud of the A/C side at all.
Keith
-
I vote for Keith's suggestion, cellon windows
-
Cellon windows?
What are they? A window to what?
-
I had a look at the larger photo in the Datafile and they certainly look like windows, but what they would be for is beyond me, they are only small and in an odd position. When you consider the size of the pilot sitting high in the cockpit and the sides of the fuselage being very close to the pilot there would be very little purpose for a window. I have checked a heap of photos of the outside of the aircraft and not one photo shows evidence of windows, so it is a puzzle.
Des.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Pw6XSCtEhGA/Uf7ptGtqTyI/AAAAAAAAIjc/qflq9tTmGHg/s1012/MS-L.jpg)
-
Yeah, I got the data file also and nothing indicates what they might be .
Thanks anyway. :)
-
Hello All
Yes, I think the best guess would be some cellon window, but, being so close to the crew and awkwardly placed in a cramped area, I wondered if the objective was not to look out of but to let some light in?
Best wishes
Nigel
-
AS Des pointed out, no pic of the "L" ever shows any sort of window on the out side of that area.
What they actually are might be lost to the era.
on the other hand, their purpose can not be too obscure as they are in included in the kit
BTW, some Ls were equipped with a bomb rack but they were released by a very large lever on the out side of the aircraft
-
I'm for pouches for maps.
-
Map pockets would make sense but, why the strange random patterns on them that do not appear be maps?
Here's a pic of the PE parts.
-
I found a blurry image on the web, I couldn't tell if it was an illustration or a picture of a kit but it showed them as leather brown squares, I am still of the opinion though they are windows, obviously not standard as theres no other evidence anywhere. As for their use, either rough bomb aiming or possibly to see the ground when landing. A pity theres no other information, they could well be a localised mod. But at the end of the day it's your call. Looks like the PE represents a leather pouch/pocket not a clear map holder to me though
Keith
-
Yeah..... I will probably just just glue them in place just as they are.
-
i asked the same question a while back on another forum, what also had me puzzeled was the pattern etched into the pe parts. i truly think they are leather pouches for maps or document storage. perhaps the designer of the kit wasnt sure what they were so tryed to mimic the pattern seen on them in this old photo. this could also be an attempt to make a 2d pe part look like a rumpled leather pouch flap. so i am going to replace them with some leather pouches from some figure sets. this is what i did in my dr.1. the ww2 german soldiers had a pouch just about the right size and shape for this type of map pouch.
-
I just had a thought.
Since the "L" was mainly a reconnaissance aircraft that also took photos, perhaps they are connected with that in some way?
Anyway, i do see how they may be leather pouches.
-
i just dont see it. i just went thru the type"L" datafile and i see no photos that have anything resembleing windows and those things are awfully wrinkled to be windows anyway,the caption beside that photo doesnt mention them, let alone the fact that the guys heads are out above the cramped fuselage, maybe storage for photo plates. just cant see anything like a window in that photo. i could be wrong bout what they are but i feel very strong on what they are not.
-
The more I look at them, the more I do think that they are leather pouches for whatever.
For me, widows have be eliminated as there are no pics of an "L" from the outside with any hint of a window .
If you accept that they might be leather pouches, you can make out some sort of elastic or draw string at the top, giving them the "rounded" corners and, fluted top appearance.
Also, leather would give it the random pattern reflective qualities due to the uneven surface of the pouches.
Don't forget that in those days, more light was need to take a good pic and this could explain the reflections.
Now, the question that begs to be asked is, why are they mounted directly against the CDL? :)
-
I don't know the structure of this A/C but could the sides be ply around the cockpit? I'm sure someone here knows though.
One thing that convinced me they are windows though was the total lack of shadow around the square and the only apparent shadow being within along the upper edge as if the cellon was mounted to the exterior of the panel. Another was the bracing wires crossing them and apparently not deforming the shapes.
I think you are just going to have to do what you feel right and go with it (you do know once you have a week later someone wil post a lovely clear image proving quite the opposite? ;D
Keith
-
I agree with the assessment that there is no photographic evidence of any MS L with windows, and that any sort of transparancy in those locations would be useless. Because of the shine, it looks like patent leather, not natural leather. I believe that they are not so much pouches, but sort of a flat pocket for holding additional maps, to be pulled out and clipped to the map holder in front of the pilot.
Cheers,
Bud
-
theres another possibility bud. all i know is i looked thru my datafile and online to try and find evidence of a "L" with windows and there is no evidence of this. they are odd looking to be pouches i admit that . very shiny,too wrinkled to be a window, and they appear to be black, so why a tinted ,wrinkled window mounted in the fabric sides of this craft the top of which is at shoulder level or below. i just dont see a window, dont know what the hell they are though.
-
If they are pouches for maps, might they have an elastic band sewn into the top edge of the pouch as a sort of closure? That would account for the odd reflection.
-
sure its possible, i just dont see windows when i look at that photo. document pouches seem logical