forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
The WW1 modelers' reference library => Markings and Camouflage => Topic started by: 2996 Victor on November 12, 2025, 08:15:59 PM
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Dear All,
I'm hoping to make a start on 571/18 shortly, using Eduard's 1/48 ProfiPack kit.
As I understand it, Jasta 43 received its D.VIIs second-hand from other units, in particular Jasta 18. Is there any means of discovering which unit 571/18 was with prior to its being allocated to Jasta 43?
I realised that this aeroplane is usually shown as having a black fuselage with white empennage, as shown in this WNW profile:
http://www.wingnutwings.com/ww/v98C7274C/www/products/decals/30007/colour_schemes/Fokker%20D.VII%20(Alb)%20571~18,%20Adolf%20Gutknecht,%20Jasta%2043,%20July%201918%20(8%20victories).jpg (http://www.wingnutwings.com/ww/v98C7274C/www/products/decals/30007/colour_schemes/Fokker%20D.VII%20(Alb)%20571~18,%20Adolf%20Gutknecht,%20Jasta%2043,%20July%201918%20(8%20victories).jpg)
but I have also been looking at this photograph:
https://scontent.flba3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/524696175_1178569824287950_875755563395761223_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=rURe7moGMsQQ7kNvwFjQe1n&_nc_oc=AdlnnnDwy6JF8xGo1OHuqodD6WwhWgHfrtJUUb7WB_OP430aKPPn9The1fXSKyqd4tM&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.flba3-2.fna&_nc_gid=TjIXVtHRH6OV43xJkE1wlg&oh=00_AfihIWmbYbef6OWf2WKa3BJg_leZPVOx0zELBH83Wm90dw&oe=691A2B31 (https://scontent.flba3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/524696175_1178569824287950_875755563395761223_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=rURe7moGMsQQ7kNvwFjQe1n&_nc_oc=AdlnnnDwy6JF8xGo1OHuqodD6WwhWgHfrtJUUb7WB_OP430aKPPn9The1fXSKyqd4tM&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.flba3-2.fna&_nc_gid=TjIXVtHRH6OV43xJkE1wlg&oh=00_AfihIWmbYbef6OWf2WKa3BJg_leZPVOx0zELBH83Wm90dw&oe=691A2B31)
and comparing the tonal values with those of Raesch's D.VII in the background known to have a red forward fuselage with black trident motif, and I suspect that the forward of 571/18 may also be red.
Any thoughts or suggestions would be very welcome!
Cheers,
Mark
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Or it could be the way the light is hitting the front of 571/18....... ;)
Your logic seems perfectly reasonable and you have a photo that supports it, so I would go with what makes sense to you.
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Or it could be the way the light is hitting the front of 571/18....... ;)
Your logic seems perfectly reasonable and you have a photo that supports it, so I would go with what makes sense to you.
Thanks, Nigel, I appreciate your agreeing that my theory is at least plausible - it could absolutely just be the way the light hits 571/18! If I could discover 571/18's previous unit, that could help me decide which way to go!
Cheers,
Mark
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Probably we should compare the tonal values of the cross with the other shades of gray in the picture.
The cross is black for sure!
I perceive the space surrounding the cross as a little lighter so it makes sense to say the fuselage is not black, gray is a likely color as proposed by WNW. Why do you believe it's red?
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Probably we should compare the tonal values of the cross with the other shades of gray in the picture.
The cross is black for sure!
I perceive the space surrounding the cross as a little lighter so it makes sense to say the fuselage is not black, gray is a likely color as proposed by WNW. Why do you believe it's red?
To my eyes, there are tonal differences between 571/18's forward fuselage and the band surrounding the fuselage balkenkreuz. I was looking at this and comparing the forward fuselage with that of Raesch's D.VII, which was known to be red.
The band looks to me to have the same tone as the cross, so I'd say the band is black as well. However, the tone of the forward fuselage looks very similar to that of Raesch's machine, and the fact that Jasta 43 received a number of D.VIIs from Jasta 18 made me wonder if 571/18 could be red as well.
Cheers,
Mark
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Forward fuselage of 571/18 does indeed look like it could be red, supported by tonal similarities to Raesch?s confirmed red D.VII.
The fuselage band appears black, matching the tone of the Balkenkreuz.
Historical context supports the possibility of a red forward fuselage from a Jasta 18 hand-me-down.
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Forward fuselage of 571/18 does indeed look like it could be red, supported by tonal similarities to Raesch?s confirmed red D.VII.
The fuselage band appears black, matching the tone of the Balkenkreuz.
Historical context supports the possibility of a red forward fuselage from a Jasta 18 hand-me-down.
Hi Frank,
many thanks for your reply and many apologies for not having responded sooner.
Further sporadic digging has led me to this post on The Aerodrome https://theaerodrome.com/forum/showpost.php?p=396186&postcount=2 (https://theaerodrome.com/forum/showpost.php?p=396186&postcount=2) by the late Dan-San Abbott. The fact that Dan-San felt that Jakobs' D.VII was not the commonly-accepted black but was actually red perhaps lends a little more credence to my theory about Gutknecht's aeroplane (Dan-San's opinion was worth more than most experts' "facts"!).
Cheers,
Mark
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Ltn Raesch's diary, as published in C&C Journal Vol.8 No.4, contains some very interesting photographs which are leading me toward more candidates for modelling. Some of these are also reproduced in Osprey's Fokker D.VII Aces Part 2 by Norman Franks and Greg VanWyngarden.
These are the Fokker D.VIIs of Vzfw Weihle and Ltn Wernicke.
Ernst Weihle's D.VII is interesting insofar as it seems to be in one solid colour from its nose to the Jasta's white tail unit (C&C p.317, D.VII Aces p.28). I guess we'll never know what colour it was for certain (unless anyone has specific information of course!). Red seems obvious, but what about a blue, a blue-grey or grey-green? The tone is quite similar to that of Raesch's uniform, but what other colours might give a similar result with the camera film (orthochromatic?) most commonly in use then?
Wernicke's D.VII might be one of the Jasta 18 refugees - dark fuselage from the nose to the rear of the cockpit and white thereafter, with a dark chevron aft of the fuselage cross. It crops up in D.VII Aces on p.30, and also appears in C&C on p.327, photo 5, behind a line-up of pilots consisting of Kiep, Raesch, Drexler and Siepmann. It looks like it has the white chin typical of Jasta 18. Wernicke was to lose his life in this aeroplane on July 16th as a result of self-ignition of phosphorus ammunition caused by excessive heat.
On a slightly different note, I'm considering buying the two (so far) Aeronaut volumes on the Jasta Colors. Are they a worthwhile purchase, and do either of the published volumes cover Jasta 43?
Many thanks as always!
Cheers,
Mark