forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Scratch builds => Topic started by: DaddyO on April 19, 2025, 07:21:23 PM
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After finishing the LVG recently I bimbled around the workroom wondering what to have a go at next. I'm sue it's not just me, but when a build is completed I'm always a bit 'flat' (which is part of the reason my workbench usually has half a dozen different projects on the go at once)
Anyway after a few days looking through various kit boxes and narrowing the field down to a more acceptable number I still couldn't decide which one to commit to and so went away to do other things. My current collection leans heavily into Nieuport variations and German types so really I wanted something British (or at least allied) reasonably large and ideally a bit 'different' to stand out on the display table. It was then I remembered some of the 'one day' projects - you know the ones that you promise yourself you'll have a go at some day ::) (We all have them; projects that are just ideas for 'really' nice models - multi aircraft diorama's, dramatic vignettes etc.) Well in my 'one day' projects were 3 suitable triplanes 8)
So on Good Friday I decided I wasn't getting any younger and the only way to get one of these models is to break out the plastic and have a go ;)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54461515221_e362920410_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2qYzv4K)FK12 (https://flic.kr/p/2qYzv4K) by Paul S (https://www.flickr.com/photos/202177392@N05/), on Flickr
Starting with the tail surfaces the first problem was encountered -
Having cut to shape and sanded to section I added the ribs using my usual 'scored' method and unfortunately the rather floppy piece of plastic took on an unfortunate bow :o Now I'm sure others would press on and find an alternative solution, but my thought was I've used the scoring method for the last few years without issue on 'normal' kits so why not just make the tail the same way. Rummaging on the shelf I found a suitable wing from a box and tried again. The lower surface was sanded flat (ish) and all detail sanded off and then the section reduced in thickness before the elevators were separated. Although taking a good deal longer to make the result is something much more rigid that looks the part. 8)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54460676537_cf937bd035_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2qYvcKF)FK12 tail plane (https://flic.kr/p/2qYvcKF) by Paul S (https://www.flickr.com/photos/202177392@N05/), on Flickr
Encouraged by these I slapped some plastic card together to form the main bits of the fuselage. The intention is to add the rounded top sections and nose from carved thicker sheet tacked in place for carving and then removed to allow any details to be added. One of the advantages of the layout is that both lower wings attach to the fuselage directly which should make setting up easier. To reinforce the attachment points I've added a couple of extra thcknesses of card which should allow the wings to be pinned in place with wire.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54460676507_c4e81b3ab9_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2qYvcKa)FK12 fuselage (https://flic.kr/p/2qYvcKa) by Paul S (https://www.flickr.com/photos/202177392@N05/), on Flickr
That's all for the moment, but I'll cover a bit of history of this interesting beastie in a later post
Paul
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heckuva start.
following along
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Great choice Paul!
One of those airplanes that makes you wonder "What were they thinking?..."
It's not even clear if it's the F.K.6 or F.K.12 but it's obviously a failure, and one of the best definitions of the term "ungainly" ;D
A good start, I will be following with interest :)
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heckuva start.
following along
Thank you kindly sir ;D
Great choice Paul!
One of those airplanes that makes you wonder "What were they thinking?..."
It's not even clear if it's the F.K.6 or F.K.12 but it's obviously a failure, and one of the best definitions of the term "ungainly" ;D
A good start, I will be following with interest :)
Cheers matey. ;D
I quite like the look of the FK8 and when I started looking into other designs by Fredrick (Koolhoven) I was immediately struck by the lack of shall we say 'conventionality'. Here was a man unafraid to push the boundaries of what was possible (I seem to recalla story that the earlier triplane was so radical that either the pilot or works manager refused it to be flown)
Clearly the idea of gunners in the wings was popular pre-sychronization because there's the similar (ish) Robey Peters idea (which is also on my some day build list) ;)
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Wow, what am intriguing project! Great start, you have a lot of courage to attempt this and I can't wait to see it in the wild on a GWSIG display 8)
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Wow, what am intriguing project! Great start, you have a lot of courage to attempt this and I can't wait to see it in the wild on a GWSIG display 8)
Cheers Nigel. ;D
It's certainly a big old lump so should stand out among my usual tiddlers. The wingspan is about 62' so around the same size as a Marauder bomber (A tad less than a Gotha) Roughly 10 1/2" wingspan on the model
I figured I might as well have a go at something different and this is one of 3 triplane projects that I'd considered. There are a few 'problems' that will need solving before it's completed, but rather than wait until I was sure I knew how to sort them I thought I'd dive in and have some fun and hopefully learn some stuff along the way ::)
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Following on from my tailplane experience I decided to tackle the wings slightly differently from my original plan. Looking through the many unbuilt models sitting on the shelf I found a pair of Roden Gotha's (GII and GIV) Since I'm only ever likely to tackle one that meant some surplus parts :o and with a bit of jiggling about I could get a complete set of wings to suit.
NB - I decided to fill the hinge lines with stretched sprue because this would behave in the same way as the rest of the wing plastic when adding details later. The large Gotha wing panels needed an extra little chunk of plastic adding to the cut out section to make up the length correctly. The middle (largest) wing is the only one with ailerons fitted so that will make life easier.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54466078545_6ea4d3e28c_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2qYYTzK)FK12 mid wing (https://flic.kr/p/2qYYTzK) by Paul S (https://www.flickr.com/photos/202177392@N05/), on Flickr
In other news the rough fuselage shape is now ready for a top piece and the upper wing (which is the only one with dihedral) is, after much rimming and sanding ready for pins and rib tapes to be added
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54466078525_f2c01ae7a8_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2qYYTzp)FK12 top wing (https://flic.kr/p/2qYYTzp) by Paul S (https://www.flickr.com/photos/202177392@N05/), on Flickr
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Excellent use of a bank holiday weekend! And also excellent use of a spare Gotha.....
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Excellent use of a bank holiday weekend! And also excellent use of a spare Gotha.....
;D Even managed to eat some chocolate eggs so top weekend all round
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Great project Paul!
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Great project Paul!
Cheers matey. really busy at work so haven't had any chance to move it along so far this week :-[
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Nice scratch project of an ugly plane!
And hurry, so it is done when the kit arrives....
Cheers Joachim
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Been away and just found this: an excellent topic for a scratch build. I do like those experimental types which looked ungainly at best and down right ugly at worst. They are so interesting for a number of reasons, not least because they are so little known - which means nobody can claim that you have got something wrong! (even when you have!!!?)
I will be following with great interest not least to crib any good construction ideas.
Stephen.
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Nice scratch project of an ugly plane!
And hurry, so it is done when the kit arrives....
Cheers Joachim
LOL wouldn't that be typical Joachim ;D, but I reckon I'm pretty safe with this one . . .
Been away and just found this: an excellent topic for a scratch build. I do like those experimental types which looked ungainly at best and down right ugly at worst. They are so interesting for a number of reasons, not least because they are so little known - which means nobody can claim that you have got something wrong! (even when you have!!!?)
I will be following with great interest not least to crib any good construction ideas.
Stephen.
Cheers Stephen
I'm very taken with these shall we say 'quirky' designs and the empirical nature if build it to see if it works process that went on. They are also excellent display pieces compared with more regular designs provoking interest and comments when alongside more 'normal' aircraft :)
Not sure there'll be much in the way of interesting techniques to crib, much of my modelling is 'make it up as you go along' school ::)
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Not sure there'll be much in the way of interesting techniques to crib, much of my modelling is 'make it up as you go along' school ::)
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....which is the technique that I use all the time. It means that you will probably do something I have not thought about and then I can crib it!!
Stephen.
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Not sure there'll be much in the way of interesting techniques to crib, much of my modelling is 'make it up as you go along' school ::)
....which is the technique that I use all the time. It means that you will probably do something I have not thought about and then I can crib it!!
Stephen.
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LOL! ;D
The time I've had this week has mainly been wing related; I've now got a complete set of three wings wit the the lower sets pinned (0.7mm brass tube) ready for mounting. Ailerons are also pinned (brass wire 0.3 mm) and interestingly there are two control horns on each for which the slots have been cut ready for brass horns to be added later.
There's also been some work on the fuselage (although it doesn't look terribly exciting hopefully it'll make life easier in the later stages) ;) The wing pins were measured and fitted in the same position in each wing using the leading edge as datum which meant that I was able to align the fixing holes using a pencil line around the fuselage - this should in theory give me wing leading edges that all line up nicely when viewed from above.
Looking at the photograph and plan there appears to be a 'natural' break forward of the cockpit so a laminated plastic sheet panel has been added ready for carving. Aft of this I'll probably use the same technique, but may make a 'crash' mould to save hollowing out the cockpit area :-\
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54479204824_09ba2e6101_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2r19ayU)DSC_1641 (https://flic.kr/p/2r19ayU) by Paul S (https://www.flickr.com/photos/202177392@N05/), on Flickr
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Excellent progress Paul, this is starting to look impressively ugly..... ;) Superb scratchbuilding work on this so far.
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Excellent progress Paul, this is starting to look impressively ugly..... ;) Superb scratchbuilding work on this so far.
Cheers Nigel ;D
It'll certainly be the ugliest/oddest aeroplane I've built so far
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Just because the day is full with work related stuff doesn't mean modelling won't be done. A few very early starts (getting up at 5.00) :o allowed some uninterrupted build time before the normal day starts
Pod shape taken from plan with a few tweaks using the photo. The top will be trimmed later to fit under the middle wing. The side were cut to shape from 10 thou plastic card and then boiling water poured over them to allow them to be curved slightly. Interestingly the side taper inwards so the bottom of the pod is narrower than the top so a couple of tapered formers were glued to the bench to ensure both sides matched.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54493247894_d6a399ec17_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2r2o95N)FK pod (https://flic.kr/p/2r2o95N) by Paul S (https://www.flickr.com/photos/202177392@N05/), on Flickr
Once both sides were glued the front edge was trimmed and a couple of strips of 10 thou card added ready to be sanded to shape
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54493407745_d9a8ac3e23_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2r2oXAR)FK Pods (https://flic.kr/p/2r2oXAR) by Paul S (https://www.flickr.com/photos/202177392@N05/), on Flickr
The top wing is the only one with dihedral, as I mentioned, so after pinning with brass wire this was glued together using a couple of plastic scraps to get the correct angle. The inevitable gaps were plugged with some scrap 5 thou card and when dry everything sanded ready for detailing.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54493247919_1cfabc7658_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2r2o96e)FK top wing (https://flic.kr/p/2r2o96e) by Paul S (https://www.flickr.com/photos/202177392@N05/), on Flickr
Then it was back to sanding the fuselage. The rough shape was hacked out using a scalpel and then on to the sanding sticks keeping everything nice and square at this stage ready for later shaping.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54493247904_9cdb0cecf6_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2r2o95Y)FK fuz and top wing (https://flic.kr/p/2r2o95Y) by Paul S (https://www.flickr.com/photos/202177392@N05/), on Flickr
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This is impressive work. The beast is taking shape..... Keep up with those early starts ;)
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This is looking very promising indeed. The basic shapes are fairly simple but the taper on the nacelles looks interesting. Good to see you are using sophisticated jigs - hopefully others will see that scratch building is not nearly as difficult as they may imagine it to be.
Stephen.
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This is impressive work. The beast is taking shape..... Keep up with those early starts ;)
Doing my best Nigel . . . yawn! ;D
This is looking very promising indeed. The basic shapes are fairly simple but the taper on the nacelles looks interesting. Good to see you are using sophisticated jigs - hopefully others will see that scratch building is not nearly as difficult as they may imagine it to be.
Stephen.
Cheers Stephen. :D
Nothing too difficult so far (apart from the usual trying to interpret smudgy old black and white photos) ;)
As you say once you start to break it down the shapes are pretty simple and I'm a big fan keeping things simple; hence the quick and dirty jig. I keep telling myself that once the basic shapes are done it's just a question of adding detail as per my usual practice with limited run kits. I intend to concentrate the detailing around the areas where the eye is naturally drawn and am a firm believer in the 'if you can't see it don't waste time adding detail school' ::)
Paul
ps - managed to get some time in over the weekend mainly sanding and making struts. I'll try and post a pic or two tomorrow when the sun is up
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As promised here's the sanded fuselage (feels like we're getting somewhere now) Wing attachment holes are drilled ready to plug the wings in and cockpit cover area is removed ready to be hollowed out. For the presumably stringered area aft of the cockpit I'm thinking of adding thin brass wire and the build up with filler, but who knows what I'll end up doing ::)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54503811228_b9138f3610_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2r3jhcf)FK sanded fuz (https://flic.kr/p/2r3jhcf) by Paul S (https://www.flickr.com/photos/202177392@N05/), on Flickr
As per usual struts are all brass which I usually sand from rod (yes it's boring, but I do a few strips at the start of the year ready to be cut to length) These are a tad oversize and need the ends shaping which I'll save for another day. Yes there are really that many of them! :o
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54503728169_f309727ec4_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2r3iRvc)FK Struts (https://flic.kr/p/2r3iRvc) by Paul S (https://www.flickr.com/photos/202177392@N05/), on Flickr
And here are the distinctive wing pods roughed out ready to be cut to fit the middle wing
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54503540916_6c8793e1df_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2r3hTQG)FK Pods (https://flic.kr/p/2r3hTQG) by Paul S (https://www.flickr.com/photos/202177392@N05/), on Flickr
Final one for today since I was bored sanding and filling I decided to make a start on some of the details. Undercarriage had large oleo's which were easy enough to shape from a discarded bit of Gotha wing :P
For the wheel attachment I wound 15 amp fuse wire round a brass axle and then filled and sanded the gaps. Not much will be seen, but it should be strong enough. Finally the exhausts also came courtesy of Roden's Gotha since there were a few different types on the sprues I simply picked the nearest with 6 inlet pipes and reshaped them to the correct size and style before adding the outlet pipes which were carved from those wing spars you get in Eduards Triplane box (Got plenty of those bits knocking about) ;)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54503811233_5f2ccdfb0a_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2r3jhck)FK Tripe details (https://flic.kr/p/2r3jhck) by Paul S (https://www.flickr.com/photos/202177392@N05/), on Flickr
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This is starting to look really good. Lovely work on that fuselage, you've really got a great result there and very clever scratchbuilding on those details. Can't wait to see more!
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This is starting to look really good. Lovely work on that fuselage, you've really got a great result there and very clever scratchbuilding on those details. Can't wait to see more!
Cheers matey ;D
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Got to agree with Nigel - this is shaping up really wel. The engine nacelles are works of art.
Stephen.
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Got to agree with Nigel - this is shaping up really wel. The engine nacelles are works of art.
Stephen.
Thanks Stephen.
There's a certain boat like quality to the nacelles which makes me want to add a pair of oars (hopefully when they're on the wing the urge will disappear) :D
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Going to admit , not the prettiest aircraft but totally different ! Love it !!
Alexis
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Going to admit , not the prettiest aircraft but totally different ! Love it !!
Alexis
Glad you like it Alexis. Got admit it fell out of the ugly tree (and hit most of the branches on the way down) ;D
Slow weekend with not much progress to show (although the hedges have been cut, the vegetable patch is dug and various plants have been potted so the garden is looking a bit more together) ;)
I managed to cut the cockpit opening in the wrong place on the removable panel (don't ask) and after trying various bodges decided that the best solution was to make a new section and start again. Once this was sanded to shape the opening cut and then the piece carefully hollowed out. The scrap section is laying in front of the grumpy inspector. I also cut out the tail position and engine exhaust slots, which took longer than expected. I added a platform to these so I can slot in the 'engine blocks' with the exhausts attached giving the impression of something going on inside.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54512504259_4385807df9_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2r45Qk6)DSC_1672 (https://flic.kr/p/2r45Qk6) by Paul S (https://www.flickr.com/photos/202177392@N05/), on Flickr
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That there, is some special work. Well done!
BB :)
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Great progress Paul! The weird contraption is beginning to take shape ;D
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Excellent progress, both inside and in the garden! I am really impressed with those slots for the engine/exhausts, that is some precision work there.
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This is a creative thinking and problem solving showcase. Most impressive, and entertaining to boot.
Warren Q
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That there, is some special work. Well done!
BB :)
Cheers BB ;D
Great progress Paul! The weird contraption is beginning to take shape ;D
Getting there now matey (and weird contraption is about right) :)
Presently debating whether to add a couple of Lewis guns to the pods as intended, even if the only couple of photos don't show them fitted. I think it will make it more obvious how it was to be used.
Excellent progress, both inside and in the garden! I am really impressed with those slots for the engine/exhausts, that is some precision work there.
Thanks Nigel. Trouble with the garden is stuff just keeps growing ;)
This is a creative thinking and problem solving showcase. Most impressive, and entertaining to boot.
Warren Q
;D Glad you're enjoying it Warren
Slight hiccup in the plan for this one discovered earlier today. :o
The plan view and side view give different sizes for the length of the wing pods. I used the plan view to cut the top shape (logically enough) and took a number of fixed points from the side view to get the shape. Having trimmed the top of the pods to fix to the wing I've spotted that the pod is too long. It should finish in front of the rear strut so that it can attach to the wing (confirmed by a close look at the photo) Currently my pods are about 3mm too long which means the curve on the sides will also need adjusting to suit the new length. . . I'll have a closer look later to work out the best way of rectifying this.
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Slight hiccup in the plan for this one discovered earlier today. :o
The plan view and side view give different sizes for the length of the wing pods. I used the plan view to cut the top shape (logically enough) and took a number of fixed points from the side view to get the shape. Having trimmed the top of the pods to fix to the wing I've spotted that the pod is too long. It should finish in front of the rear strut so that it can attach to the wing (confirmed by a close look at the photo) Currently my pods are about 3mm too long which means the curve on the sides will also need adjusting to suit the new length. . . I'll have a closer look later to work out the best way of rectifying this.
Oh dear. Definitely won't be ready for the Salisbury show then..... I'm sure you'll be able to fix this though, keep up the good work.
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I managed to cut the cockpit opening in the wrong place on the removable panel
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54512504259_4385807df9_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2r45Qk6)DSC_1672 (https://flic.kr/p/2r45Qk6) by Paul S (https://www.flickr.com/photos/202177392@N05/), on Flickr
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You have not scratch built a model until something like that happens! Also the plan and side elevation giving different dimensions for the same feature - another joy of using plans which have been cobbled together by somebody in the past....
This really is going to be an interesting model when finished - I am really looking forward to seeing it.
Stephen.
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;D
Cheers Nigel & Stephen.
I expected something to go pear-shaped at some point; at least at this early stage I can make corrections without too much hard work (and it's all good practice) ;)