forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
Forum Comments and Feedback => Forum Inputs, Discussion and Fixes => Topic started by: Brad Cancian on December 16, 2024, 06:52:22 AM
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Hi all!
I've recently started a conversation about some future possible directions for the site for 2025, see here - https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=14747
Off the back of the successful Dave Wilson memorial group build, part of the discussion has been around the next group build. I would love for us to maintain a 'patter' of group builds, perhaps two or three per year, depending on the interest. I would love to get one started in the new year; it could start as early as January, if there's enough interest.
I am on the fence about prizes - the aim is absolutely to encourage participation and a sense of community, first and foremost. As such I am leaning away from prizes, but welcome thoughts.
So, what I would LOVE to hear is your ideas on a theme / topic for the next group build? Possible themes (off the top of my head) could be:
1. Aircraft of the Aces
2. Two Seaters
3. Early War Kites, 1914-1916
4. A campaign build, i.e.
- The Fokker Scourge
- Bloody April
- Kaiserschlacht
etc...?
5. "Face Off" - build two models, both aircraft having been known to have faced off in the skies. I.e. Richthofen's Triplane and May's Camel, for example. (This could be complex and might be asking a bit much, but it's a thought none the less).
I am sure you all have some great ideas for themes as well. Let's get the creative juices flowing! Post your ideas here :)
Cheers!
Brad C
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Hi Brad
I'm generally against prizes for these sort of things - can there really be a 'best' model? I liked Nigel's idea of pulling a name out of the hat from the participants though, which gives a bit more encouragement to those who might normally choose not to join in.
Speaking personally I really enjoyed reading and following the various builds in the recent event and seeing the models progress towards the end date so I'm all for encouraging as much participation as possible :)
Couple more possible ideas for theme -
i) Seaplanes and flying boats
ii) A national theme (German or French or Austro-Hungarian etc)
iii) Experimental (okay maybe a limiting given the number of kits actually available)
iv) Manufacturers (eg Sopwith or Fokker)
Cheers
Paul
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I probably have too much time on my hands and think about these things far too much. So apologies for another ramble.
I have to ask, what are group builds for? They sound like a "good idea" but in reality most drift from lack of interest and models not getting completed on time. Most of us just want to share the models we are building with other like-minded enthusiasts, and often group build subjects don't fit with what we are building or plan to build. However, a bigger issue is that they fragment the board. Most people have limited time to check the forum, so IMO the most important sections are the "Under Construction" and "Completed Models" areas, because I know that's where people are posting work. If you have group build sub-boards, you create an area that might get fewer views because people might not want to check additional areas of the forum to see what people are building. None of us want to be posting in an area that isn't getting the views.
For those reasons, I have never really bothered with group builds in any forum I've been on. But here's the however. I did participate in the Dave Wilson group build and really enjoyed it. First, there was a very good reason for doing it. Second, it made me take something out of the stash and build it, because the subject matter was not too narrow. It really prompted me into "just build it" mode, which is what Dave would have wanted.
So group builds can have their place. If we are going to do them, here's my thoughts:
- Don't have too many. 2 to 3 a year sounds a lot to me and you risk low participation. I bet many people on here don't complete more than 3 WWI kits a year, so they aren't going to be "told" what to build by our group build schedule.
- Keep the subject matter wide. For me, a group build should be a reason to get something off the shelf and build it even though I hadn't planned to. People are unlikely to buy something just for the group build, so a narrow subject area will mean lower participation.
- Make it about more than just planes. If we want to grow participation and membership, we should try to keep the group builds open to all modellers (which was one of the good things about the Dave Wilson group build). So for example a group build about a specific campaign or year leaves this open to all types of WWI model. And instead of something like "Aces", make it "Personalities of WWI" so that it could include non-aviation subjects. You could still have aircraft-only group builds but maybe you could alternate aircraft-only group builds with more general ones.
- Make sure the group builds don't become a quieter backwater of the forum. You want everyone looking at and commenting on the group builds, not just the folks taking part in the group build. Maybe submit the group build postings to the main "Under Construction" board but flag them in some way as being part of the group build. I've seen this done on a music forum that I was on and it worked well.
You know my views on prizes. IMO a group build should be about taking part for the fun of it, not winning something. And if you need a prize or some incentive to make members take part in a group build, then why are we bothering with them?
That's today's ramble over...... ;)
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I was about to post this and Nigel nipped in first but I had repeated the idea of a build that doesn't restrict the modeller to just one subject. This is the post, I luckily copied it before seeing his post.
I could list a huge number of group build topics like Richthofen's aircraft, Guyenemer's aircraft (yes I know I have spelt at least one wrong).
Fighting fronts like AHE-Italian, theatres outside Europe or times like Western Front 1916, end in site 1918-1919 may be a better idea as it can incorporate subjects other than just aircraft.
Regardless of this I think a good way to kick off a GB is to list a few ideas and let members vote on them.
Alan.
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I probably have too much time on my hands and think about these things far too much. So apologies for another ramble.
<snip>
You know my views on prizes. IMO a group build should be about taking part for the fun of it, not winning something. And if you need a prize or some incentive to make members take part in a group build, then why are we bothering with them?
That's today's ramble over...... ;)
Ramble nothing, Nigel
You have pretty exactly voiced my own opinions too.
My local club runs four competitions (read 'group builds') a year but I only take part if the subject has some bearing on WWI aviation and accords with what I want to choose from the stash. Next June's "1946 - the War continues" will elicit nothing from me!
Also we all know who the superb modellers on this forum are - little point in awarding prizes to the same dozen or so amazing artists and never recognizing all of us who just build for our own pleasure. If we want to give prizes or awards, I'd suggest for the most interesting topic raised perhaps.
Cheers
Sandy
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Nigel's not the only one with too much time on his hands, he made a good point about getting stuff out the stash so here are suggestions for a group build: Oldest kit in the stash GB, shelf queen GB or modeller entering the GB presenting 2 or 3 items from the stash/shelf with the other members voting on which one to build by means of replies.
Right, I'll shut up now and get on with the Zeppelin!
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I like all these GB ideas, I am also against prizes and I especially love the <<shelf-queen>> GB. I would even add a pending punishment like <<ten strokes on the bare one if you dont finally finish that one now>>, just for motivation
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Nigel's not the only one with too much time on his hands, he made a good point about getting stuff out the stash so here are suggestions for a group build: Oldest kit in the stash GB, shelf queen GB or modeller entering the GB presenting 2 or 3 items from the stash/shelf with the other members voting on which one to build by means of replies.
Right, I'll shut up now and get on with the Zeppelin!
Great idea - I know I've got plenty of models just waiting for a nudge to get started (rather than opening the box, procrastinating and then popping it back on the shelf)
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I too love the "shelf queen" ideas for a group build - the WWI kit that has been in your stash the longest, a WWI kit you were given as a gift that you haven't built yet, a WWI kit that you bought within the last 12 months that you haven't built yet. There's many possibilities.......
That means it's open to all types of WWI model (not just planes) and it will encourage us to get something out of the stash.
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I would be into the shelf queen groupbuild...sometimes you just need a little kick in the ass !
Cheers,
"King of the shelf queens"
Mathias
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As shelf queen seems to be getting the vote at the moment I would suggest that oldest kit in the stash be included in the GB should this be chosen. The reason behind this is some people on this forum might not have shelf queens because they are good little boys and girls that finish all their builds. If there is anyone out there that has neither a shelf queen or a stash they can at least be happy with the knowledge that they are certainly not on Santa's naughty list and when they pass away they will go straight to heaven.
Alan
Edit: I have both.
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Thanks for the excellent suggestions folks!
Nigel - I like your points regarding frequency (I agree, probably no more than two per year at this stage) and sufficient broadness in the topics to include other WW1 subjects such as vehicles or figures. Great points.
I love the "Shelf Queen" idea; I certainly have a few 'Ornamentum Reginae' in my stash...!
I'll have a think about some proposed run rules and post them up in the next day or so.
What would people like - a start on 1st of Jan to, say, end of May (5 months or so)? That then gives us June to sort out a topic for a subsequent Jul-Nov group build?
Cheers again!
BC
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Excellent news Brad (hopefully get a couple of the ones on the bench finished in the coming couple of weeks so leaving the bench clear(ish)
One other suggestion for the possible build would be to pick a year - 1914, 1915 etc and anything from that year is a legitimate entry
Cheers
Paul
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I think two a year would be the maximum, so your proposed cycle makes sense.
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I think 5-6 months Brad because some modellers will not be able to start right away due to ongoing projects, others will no doubt do multiple builds and there are people like me that struggle to finish anything in shorter timescales.
Alan.
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Ok chaps, here are some proposed draft rules. I propose a 15 Jan start so that people have a few weeks to mull over what they might want to build (as well as keeping things clear of Christmas and New Years, which tend to be family time). Please let me know any thoughts or adjustments you'd like to propose.
"Shelf Queen" Group Build Rules:
1. The group build is open to all registered members of the forum. Members from all skill levels are encouraged to enter.
2. Your entry may be an aircraft, artillery, armour, vehicle, figure, ship or a diorama.
3. The model must represent a WW1 subject operational during the period 1914-1918.
4. Choose any model that has been languishing on your ?shelf of doom?. The only rule is that it must already be part of your existing model ?stash?. The model may be started, or unstarted. The idea here is to build and finish something that has been either part started and since relegated back to the shelf, or a kit that has been a twinkle in your eye as a project in your stash for quite a while. I?m using the honour system here, so please don?t go and buy a brand new kit for the group build.
5. A build log should be started as a new topic on the group build board. Please include any initial photos of the kit in its current state (started or unstarted). Progress update photos should be added to your build log.
6. Any scale smaller than 1/1 scale is permitted.
7. Any building medium is permitted.
8. You can enter as many times as you like.
9. Start date is 15 January 2025 and the GB will run for five months, closing at the end of 15 June 2025.
Cheers!
BC
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That looks good Brad. I'm sure this will get a good attendance.
Alan.
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Great ideas all......
My only problem is I have no shelf queens. I have a limited area in which to build and my basic modeling philosophy of not letting a pile of plastic get the better of me means everything that gets started, gets on the shelf somewhere. Those that got hurried along to make way for other builds are farther back on the shelf.
However.....
IF we can determine exactly what constitutes a "started" model there may be some wiggle room for me.
Before I jumped in with this Eduard Pup, (don't get me started on THAT as it may well be my first shelf queen) I had pulled down a Roland D.VIb, a DH.4, both Blue Max, and a Special Hobby SPAD VII. I was well along basic clean-up, parts off, trailing edges sanded thin, scallop edges corrected and most parts fitted and sanded. I even ordered aftermarket decals for the DH4 and SPAD. I then decided to fondle something else. I just never got out any actual adhesive of any kind.....
But hey, give me some time and I may have an Eduard Pup shelf queen but that just means I'd have to finish the damn thing anyway.....
I have group build ideas but we are well covered already. Someone mentioned listing the builds in the "under construction" forum to garner further interest. When I've run GB's on other sites I would use initials. As example, the Dave Wilson Memorial Group Build would have been listed as "Aurora Albatros, 1/48, DWMGB".
Your thoughts? I will of course abide by whatever you want me to do.
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Thanks for the suggestions gents - I have now announced the new group build, here ;D -
https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=14768
Cheers again,
Brad C