forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Hints and Tips/Questions about modeling => Topic started by: kinnies on February 07, 2013, 04:00:35 PM
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Ah, the perennial question ... which acrylic do you prefer (if you use acrylics, that is) for airbrushing?
I am making the switch from enamels (Humbrol) for the usual reasons - the chemicals, the pong, the longer drying time, the gas mask etc. I have also found Humbrol a bit inconsistent, but apart from all that, they have performed well for me over the years.
At first, I had trouble with acrylics. It has taken me quite a while to get good coverage from Tamiya, but now I like them a lot. I find they cover wonderfully and I can do lighter and heavier coats with few problems. However, their colour range is somewhat limited, I find. But since I am never satisfied I have also been experimenting with other brands.
Tonight I tried some Vallejo Model Air, which in recent months has appeared in my local model shops, and even with the retarder it plugged up my Iwata after a few passes. Admittedly, I did not use their thinner, just water (which I was told worked well). Then, when I tried to clean it, it gunked up a bit. Much harder to clean than Tamiya.
Then I sprayed some Xtracrylix, which I ordered months ago from Hannants. Thinned with a bit of Windex and with a drop or two of Vallejo retarder, it sprayed really well - great coverage, no clogging, no running - the mutt's nuts in fact.
I've not tried Mr Hobby or Gunze or Lifecolour, which I have read are quite good.
So, what are your favourites? your paint stories and experiences?
Cheers,
John
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My choice for a spraying acrylic is Gunze. I find when thinned with a tad of lacquer thinners it sprays and covers beautifully, it is quick drying and does not clog my air brush. Regardless of what paint I use I always wear a respirator just for my own safety. I have been using Humbrol enamels my whole modeling life and have had great success with them, but I am slowly switching over to the acrylics purely for the quick drying time. My air brush sprays the Gunze acrylics at around 26 - 30psi and it is easy to clean by simply running some lacquer thinners through the gun.
Des.
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You can also thin Vallejo with Windex to reduce clogging. Vallejo works best at low pressures (7- 10 psi) and high thinning. It´s good to have a hard brush soaked in Windex to clean the tip of the needle every now and again. Do not try alcohol.
I´ve heard good things about Lifecolor paints thinned in their own thinner. These are readily available at Luckymodel.
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I've pretty much settled on Tamiya for spraying. I thin it with Tamiya thinner about 50:50; I like the way it handles out of the airbrush and for my purposes anyway the color range is fine -- but I'm happy mixing my own colors; for that they provide a decent range of base colors.
For brush painting I have experimented a bit with Citadel; apart from the truly awful names (at least they dropped "vomit brown") the stuff is interesting and a bit easier to handle but it doesn't lay down like Tamiya. There have been a couple of threads elsewhere on how to get Tamiya to work from a brush. It can be done but you have to rethink your approach completely.
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I find Gunze ever so slightly better than Tamiya but they are head and shoulders IMO above the rest. I tend to thin both with Gunze levelling thinner.
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I use Tamiya in the first instance because it sprays and brushes well, and is readily available here. I also use Vallejo but although they have an excellent range of colours I find it doesn't handle very well, and as you've found, blocks the airbrush even when thinned. It's a good second choice.
This mirrors my experience too.
Cheers,
Chris
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Though I'm only a recent convert to acrylics, and a dedicated brush painter, I feel I ought to speak up for Misterkit. I've had some difficulties handling Tamiya paint but from the comments above I guess I will 'get the knack' in due course. But it's been a pleasure to use the Misterkit paints and, of course, they're comfortingly labelled with the names of the exact colours we want for our Great War subjects. Um yes I don't know if I'm being a bit trusting about their accuracy, but the results look nice
Mark
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I like Misterkit too,I used to thin it with Future but just this week tried Tamiya acrylic thinner (X-20A) and achieved even better results.I use Gunze and Tamiya for non WW1 subjects,thinned with the same thinner or Mr Color Thinner.One thing to be careful of is spraying Tamiya over gloss Gunze,which takes some time to dry completely-I have seen an apparently good finish deteriorate badly over time due to presumeably the variation in drying times between the 2 brands.Judging by posts on other forums this is pretty common.
Cheers,
Dave.
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Hi all,
Some interesting responses. I've never heard of Misterkit paint before. I'll have to check them out online. Tamiya are difficult to use with the old hair stick, and I only brush them on very small parts. Certainly you have to be careful not to brush over a wet coat. If I have to brush larger bits, I use enamels and I still find enamels and lacquers best for metallics.
I used Vallejo on my Albi prop. First I primed it with Krylon primer, then when that cured used Vallejo. After it was thoroughly cured, I could literally rub it off with my thumb.
Cheers,
John
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I never got on with Vallejo. i use mister kit, gunze but mainly tamiya thinned with cellulose thinners. Xtracryix are good. The other thing is that jars of gunze and tamiya can be a nightmare to open!
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I have various pots of Tamiya, Lifecolor, Vallejo modelair, misterkit and gunze and like them all. I have not had any problem with vallejo modelair clogging my airbrush, maybe thats because I don't (have the skill to) do detail work so it doesn't stay in the brush for long, plus I use a low pressure. I have some vallejo brand thinner to use with their non-modelair paint for something I want to do but one whiff of the thinner does wicked things to my lungs so I'm only going to use that outdoors. I'm trying to remember what I used to thin the misterkit, I think it was a mix of water and lifecolour thinner, so I was surprised to read that Tamiya brand thinner works. Its all a matter of trial and error (for me), anyway ;)
Idea - I use matt plasti-kote fast dry enamel project paint aerosol spracy tins for spraying flat (ie where you are not concerned with heavy paint burying fine detail) large-ish white areas, white not always being the easiest colour to spray. Do a thin coat at a time and it works very well. £5 for a 100ml can.
http://www.plasti-kote.co.uk/Product/pcode---4427/pccode---6751
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Drdave, yes, I also have trouble opening the Gunze paint lids once they have been sitting for a while, I always wipe the lip and thred of the bottle but the lids still seem to stick very well. Running the lids under very hot water will usually loosen them, if that fails it time for the hammer.
Des.
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Get yourself the Mr jar opener. Its a godsend and deals with both Tamiya and Gunze jars and I've yet to have a jar beat me, or even come remotely close to putting up a decent challenge for that matter.
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Regarding the acrylic jar lids -- stir, don't shake, keep them upright and remember to wipe the glass rim before closing them up, snd you wont have many problems. Hot water works but it spoils the label...
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Channel Locks have never failed me yet when opening a stubborn top, and I suspect most of us have them on hand for plumbing and other household jobs.
(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/025582301871_ca_zpsf97c3c8b.jpg)
Cheers,
Chris
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Yup, got one of those always on standby, not for plumbing tho. Use them a fair bit on those pesky little Testors' jars that I still have hanging around.
John
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For opening Gunze and Tamiya jars one of these is invaluable -
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa21/pdh222/KGrHqNpEFBwEWzGZBQnN0VrfdQ60_12_zps2ff61bb5.jpg)
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa21/pdh222/41_zps531daabf.jpg)
Fairly easy to obtain, best place probably Ebay. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MR-HOBBY-GUNZE-GUNDAM-COLOR-PAINT-CAP-OPENER-GT56-/190530248581 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MR-HOBBY-GUNZE-GUNDAM-COLOR-PAINT-CAP-OPENER-GT56-/190530248581)
P
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I just use a cheap pair of nutcrackers I pinched from the kitchen.
Cheers,
Dave.
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Or wear a rubber glove - great for extra grip on difficult lids...
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Well, well, there is a gizmo for just about anything ...
Of course, Tamiya could switch to the eyedropper bottle ;D
John
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I use a hammer.
Kidding, just some hot water and they come right open.
Works on jars of Mr. Surfacer too.
-Rog
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Thanks PDH for the link to the Gunze opener, I just ordered one, this little tool will make life a lot easier.
Des.
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Thanks PDH for the link to the Gunze opener, I just ordered one, this little tool will make life a lot easier.
Des.
You won't regret it Des. I thought that was a good price as well, mine cast me nearly £10 a couple of years ago at Telford.
Peter
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Not a Hammer Des, a Birmingham Screwdriver!
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I also like Tamiya for spraying. I tried Humbrol enamel but those #$@ tins...plus I hate using oil based thinners.
I disagree with people who say Tamiya acrylics brush well though. I use Tamiya thinner and still hate it for brushing. It's like some alien blood that instantly coagulates.
But for spraying it's the bees knees.
I'm getting one of those openers. Thanks for the pic. Channel locks tear up my lids. :)
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I have sprayed Vallejo at 18-22 psi. I usually have no problems and only occasionally add their thinner. Tamiya I like way better and Gunze is hard to find in these here parts.
All of the above are easily cleaned with windex or alcohol.
Vallejo does take some getting used to.
-Roger
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I disagree with people who say Tamiya acrylics brush well though. I use Tamiya thinner and still hate it for brushing. It's like some alien blood that instantly coagulates.
The cure is to add a drop or two of acrylic retarder to your paint and it'll put an end to that issue. It should be available at any art supply store.
Cheers,
Chris
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Thanks Chris. I will try that. When I was struggling at first to brush paint with the Tamiya acrylics all I kept reading from the many internet threads was to make sure to use Tamiya thinner and dip your brush frequently in it. That helps but it still has issues for me so I went back to only using the brush for very small items and often using oil instead. I will track down the item you mentioned and try again.
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Yep, you can find it (acrylic retarder, that is) at any art supply store that stocks artist's acrylics. Liquitex is the brand I use. Just a dab is all it takes.
I think once you master them you will never want to go back -- the fast drying and simple cleanup are huge assets imo.
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has anyone tried tamiya's own retarder?
and if so is it any good?
michael
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Bo, is the Liquitex product you use called "slow-dri blending medium"? Thanks.
Michael, I didn't know Tamiya had an offereing. According to this person it works well... http://dc23-mecharts.blogspot.com/2010/01/tamiya-paint-retarder-acrylic.html (http://dc23-mecharts.blogspot.com/2010/01/tamiya-paint-retarder-acrylic.html). Having a little bit of trouble finding it at my normal internet shops. Here's the Tamiya promo - they say use it 1:10 - http://www.tamiya.com/english/products/87114paint_retarder/index.htm (http://www.tamiya.com/english/products/87114paint_retarder/index.htm)
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Hi Todd i found the tamiya stuff on ebay £4 from hong kong to the u.k. + free postage. seems good stuff
michael
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This is what I use Todd. It's a 4 oz bottle that sells at Curry Art store here in Canada for $8.50. I use it for both brushing and airbrushing Tamiya acrylics.
(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Misc/GA35804_zps943e63d2.jpg)
Cheers,
Chris
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Chris, what's the advantage of using a retarder for air brushing, I can see the full benefits for brush painting.
Des.
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Chris, what's the advantage of using a retarder for air brushing, I can see the full benefits for brush painting.
On occasion years ago, I used to encounter a sandpaper like finish on some of my paint jobs and it was attributable to the acrylic paint drying in the air before it made it to the model surface. I would also get a buildup around the nozzle of the airbrush which would cause splattering. Once I started to employ a drop or two of retarder in my colour cup paint mixture, those issues disappeared entirely.
Cheers,
Chris
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Chris, what's the advantage of using a retarder for air brushing, I can see the full benefits for brush painting.
On occasion years ago, I used to encounter a sandpaper like finish on some of my paint jobs and it was attributable to the acrylic paint drying in the air before it made it to the model surface. I would also get a buildup around the nozzle of the airbrush which would cause splattering. Once I started to employ a drop or two of retarder in my colour cup paint mixture, those issues disappeared entirely.
Cheers,
Chris
Yep, same reason car painters sometimes mix retarding agents into the paint before shooting-- mostly a matter of relative humidity...
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Bo, is the Liquitex product you use called "slow-dri blending medium"? Thanks.
Michael, I didn't know Tamiya had an offereing. According to this person it works well... http://dc23-mecharts.blogspot.com/2010/01/tamiya-paint-retarder-acrylic.html (http://dc23-mecharts.blogspot.com/2010/01/tamiya-paint-retarder-acrylic.html). Having a little bit of trouble finding it at my normal internet shops. Here's the Tamiya promo - they say use it 1:10 - http://www.tamiya.com/english/products/87114paint_retarder/index.htm (http://www.tamiya.com/english/products/87114paint_retarder/index.htm)
That's the stuff! Other brands work as well. You can even use anti freeze, though I wouldn't recommend it -- it's quite toxic.
(http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh640/UncleTony1917/77926BDC-FE98-49B8-BF11-3ECF7C89EE2B-14418-000016017A5B0619_zps36f3fdce.jpg)