forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com

WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Topic started by: Tim Mixon on September 25, 2023, 01:20:42 PM

Title: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: Tim Mixon on September 25, 2023, 01:20:42 PM
My next project will be this crude 12 Squared injection molded kit. The kit depicts one of the racers in the 1913 Gordon Bennett race. I’m going to build it as a production aircraft with the longer wingspan and two sets of control wires per wing.
This kit will need a lot of love to bring it to fruition. The one piece wing is too thick and has an incorrect shape.  The engine cowling is also too small and incorrectly tapered down towards the prop.

.(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202309/2970975_416a82ef3a09e78092e29e88fa8d46ff_t.jpeg)

.(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202309/2970975_a1291faed2541f4cfdc7da8c7218d2e3_t.jpeg)


I’m going to try and make use of an Eduard Nieuport 17 cowl. I’ll have to add Evergreen strip to lengthen it.

.(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202309/2970975_9aa840436d53d8763bd31f25468dd0a8_t.jpeg)

(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202309/2970975_9aa840436d53d8763bd31f25468dd0a8_t.jpeg)
I’ve added a few internal details and scratch built the Deperdussin steering column.
You can see the cowling extension I’ve added
I’ll scratch up the wing using Roseplane wing blanks

.(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202309/2970975_638dfa486a2ac880e9772525912357aa_t.jpeg)

.(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202309/2970975_e1be86417536fe865a0de3c413289bee_t.jpeg)

You can see on the plans that the trailing edge of the wing tapers back to the fuselage from the tips. I’ve read that this design helped increase the wing warping for maneuvering. 

.(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202309/2970975_44e0db1a81dfaf8e49071c07d4a9872c_t.png)

That’s all for now. Thanks for looking in!

Tim
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: davec on September 25, 2023, 10:10:33 PM
This looks like it will be an amazing project - the kit will need a ton of modification.  Looking forward to watching it evolve.
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: IanB on September 26, 2023, 02:46:51 AM
My kind of modelling. I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with this!

Ian
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: lone modeller on September 26, 2023, 04:11:19 AM
Looking at what you have to do I thinkk that scratch building one of these would be easier! Good luck with the project - an excellent choice. I will be following closely.

Stephen.
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: osterkamp on September 26, 2023, 04:19:10 AM
  he's going to have some work to do on this little racer  ;)
 can't wait to see it under construction
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: Tim Mixon on September 26, 2023, 11:07:02 AM
Thank you gentlemen. Yes, this is a rough kit but I’m going to try and use as much of the original parts as possible.

I’ve completed the interior work and closed the fuselage halves.  There were some significant gaps to fill so it’s setting till I get back home Friday.  I used Eduard color PE seatbelts and a PE steering column.  The rest is scratch.
After a base coat of acrylic Depot Buff, I liberally added Windsor Newton Burnt Umber oil paint.
(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202309/2970975_05d32d241b3443915f9ddf36690eb5d0_t.jpeg)

That set for two hours and then I removed most of the oil paint with a dry brush

.(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202309/2970975_86717ae62a01d7d97823fab6ae0f667c_t.jpeg)


Painted the seat and instruments, then added the seatbelts

.(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202309/2970975_1f630b2a6996cc893e465262a9b84d97_t.jpeg)
.(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202309/2970975_358c4f5bef894095d6a67b6e8132fe1c_t.jpeg)

The kit has no Gnome Lambda Lambda double row engine. I want to have something visible through the large cowling cutouts, so I decided to scratch build one.
Then I got the idea to make a silicone mold for my first time. I decided to use an ICM Oberursel U.III

.(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202309/2970975_8d1578dfd4fd0fe9768f1bd7d8c01de0_t.jpeg)

My silicone mold:

.(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202309/2970975_6b66eacbe48ec03a4aa1018b8995fe14_t.jpeg)
If it works out, I’ll make a few spares. One half I can use to replace the nine cylinder Oberursel in my recent Fokker E.I.

If it doesn’t turn out, I’ve started making cylinder heads by wrapping thin gauge wire around plastic tube

.(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202309/2970975_70d6899976b54d8768cf65e1f6f4713c_t.jpeg)

I won’t be able to try casting till next weekend.

Thanks for looking in!

Tim
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: Dutch522 on September 26, 2023, 11:25:52 AM
Looks great so far, Tim. Can I ask what you used to make the mold? It's very cool looking, whatever it is!

Dutch
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: Tim Mixon on September 26, 2023, 12:42:02 PM
BBDINO super elastic silicone mold making kit. I bought it on Amazon for $22 USD.  I also bought Environmental Technology 32032 molding and casting material (resin)   
I’m a complete novice at this so I’m not sure how or if it will work. 
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: Dutch522 on September 26, 2023, 12:45:02 PM
Neat! Thanks, I'll check it out. I've been wondering whether you could use UV-hardening resin for molding, like the stuff Richie uses for filler, too...

Dutch
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: Flamingo on September 26, 2023, 05:16:19 PM
Hi Tim,

this is a very interesting project. Never saw a Deperdussin with tapering wings so I started a search on the net,
yes, on some photos it looks there is either taper or anhedral.

What is the the big metal device on the left?
Have fun Joachim
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: NigelR on September 26, 2023, 06:24:35 PM
Wow. That's one hell of a project! Great start.....

My next project will be this crude 12 Squared injection molded kit.
I think you mean "injection melted"...........
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: KiwiZac on September 28, 2023, 11:07:08 AM
Good luck and more power to you Tim - I have total faith the end result will be a gorgeous model that betrays nothing of its origins. Great work so far!

I think you mean "injection melted"...........
;D ;D
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: Tim Mixon on October 05, 2023, 02:06:05 AM
Part 3.

My resin casting attempts were a partial success.  First attempt was totally short shot on the cylinders. Second attempt was better with only three incomplete cylinders. I was able to cut off the cylinders from my first cast and add them to the second. 

.(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202310/2970975_1f92a926810f225e5270bf2f57f91085_t.jpeg)

The 12 Squared tail section is really rough!

.(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202310/2970975_322a2aa9f61e1eba95d4b0f94bde9ea8_t.jpeg)

I’ve marked the area to be discarded. I also decided to scratch up the tail fin and rudder from Evergreen sheet.

.(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202310/2970975_5ad2370c896a41b6c3f3f2a4816c5284_t.jpeg)

Here is the primed fuselage. I had to fill and sand this several times to get this far. It’s not perfect by any means but it’s good enough for me. 

.(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202310/2970975_423cfe13e67215239e63b6987f9073d8_t.jpeg)

.(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202310/2970975_756a37bc4171c028522b1c0bbfc61299_t.jpeg)

Next I added black decal for the rib section and framework. I actually applied rib decals before priming as well to create the slight relief on the wing.

.(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202310/2970975_82ffe4054a005c9b350f1b48648a3263_t.jpeg)

.(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202310/2970975_a02f7abb33d4a17a5cba1617919d28f0_t.jpeg)


Here it is after painting the fabric. I’ve added a topcoat of Clear to protect it for masking. Next step is to paint the fuselage and prepare it for wood planking. 

.(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202310/2970975_157f3c99a19c27b4b827ae699d4fd696_t.jpeg)


Thanks for looking in!

Tim
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: ScottJ on October 05, 2023, 02:28:55 AM
Tim, for what you originally had to work with, it's looking really good!  Your modified Eduard Nieuport cowling looks like it turned out just about perfect.
Have a feeling you're going to nail this one.
Take care
Scott
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: Tim Mixon on October 05, 2023, 02:46:42 AM
Thanks Scott,
A 1/72 Oberursel engine wouldn’t fit in the original kit piece. I figured the Eduard Nieuport cowl would be about the best shape to work with.  Here’s a picture of one variant. It seems like no two of these were built the same way!
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: NigelR on October 05, 2023, 06:19:05 PM
All that work for such a tiny thing! Very impressive, it's looking good.
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: macsporran on October 05, 2023, 10:44:54 PM
Your initial assessment that this one would need a lot of love was a bit of an understatement! Classic case of a silk purse out a sow's ear though - real model making. You're dragging a great model kicking and screaming out of a sorry bunch of random plastic bits. Congrats!
Sandy
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: Dutch522 on October 05, 2023, 11:05:39 PM
Beautiful work, Tim, looking forward to how you handle that diagonally-laid monococque. I've always loved Béchereau's Deps, and have hardly ever seen them as models.

Even though Deperdussin himself was a Bernie Madoff type and died in disgrace, the aeroplanes he brought into being were lovely.

Dutch
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: IanB on October 06, 2023, 01:03:20 AM
Looking really good Tim. Especially when taking your startingnpoint into consideration!

Ian
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: Tim Mixon on October 06, 2023, 05:52:54 AM
Part 4. 

Before beginning painting the wooden fuselage, I drilled out all the control cable openings, tailskid, and posts for the wing warping cables.

I painted the nose a dark brown but will probably have to repaint it later.

Originally I wanted to use the kit part for the wing warping posts. I mangled them up trying to carve out the intended shape so decided to make them from brass stock.

.(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202310/2970975_6e6a54ba7e4d42a75f769188805a3132_t.jpeg)


I needed to Dremmel out a channel for the rigging structure on both sides of the upper fuselage.

.(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202310/2970975_338f2bfab481e67911a3d279665b7b7b_t.jpeg)

Here’s the brass stock. I still need to add more pieces to make a split diamond shape but will add them later.

.(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202310/2970975_6dda713083e8d27d51a329d493e28d7e_t.jpeg)

First step of the wood planking (Monocoque) fuselage is to paint a Tamiya Dark Yellow base coat.  This was followed with a few coats of Clear to attempt to reduce any paint lifting when removing the masking.

.(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202310/2970975_3842841988221ad85ed40795b2471fb1_t.jpeg)

While this is drying, I’ll start cutting masking strips to cover the entire fuselage.

Thanks for looking in!

Tim.
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: KiwiZac on October 06, 2023, 07:04:28 AM
I'm really enjoying this one Tim, each update is quite interesting and I'm learning some things along the way.
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: Tim Mixon on October 10, 2023, 10:26:36 AM
Part 5.

Well…. Sometimes things just don’t work out. My attempt at replicating the monocoque wood effects was a disaster.

Second step was to start adding the wood strip masks. I got greedy and tried to use long strips to spiral around the fuselage. Initially this worked until I realized that I got the ange wrong on the second spiral. This progressed to an uneven spacing.

.(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202310/2970975_8b41419b90ace8518566a8b2df9ce09f_t.jpeg)


Entire fuselage is covered:

.(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202310/2970975_7470eb90a03593afcfac5e1978f4b391_t.jpeg)

Started removing random strips

.(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202310/2970975_45cae4a44dcecb9b9bc6bcc238ebe245_t.jpeg)

Next I painted a slightly darker color

. (https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202310/2970975_2cfc6699499126a7d61b890218fa48f9_t.jpeg)

Then remove more strips and lightly spray the same darker color. This will darken the first strips leaving three colors.

.(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202310/2970975_2c9688d0faf7063da7db5ee2525443f0_t.jpeg)

After all the masking was removed I applied a heavily thinned artist oil burnt umber wash

.(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202310/2970975_60faca47c22eb2855472a216d581282a_t.jpeg)

Here’s what I ended up with:

.(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202310/2970975_7dfb52bcbeff3ca5fdbe58bbff7572ad_t.jpeg)

The left side and bottom are really bad!

Plus the tail flying surfaces had paint lift with the mask removal.

I’ll try again next week sometime.

Thanks for looking in!

Tim
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: Dutch522 on October 10, 2023, 11:52:34 AM
Looks pretty good to me, Tim (especially that rear 3/4 shot), but you're the bus driver :-)

It's going to be a gem when you're done!

Dutch
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: IanB on October 10, 2023, 04:22:02 PM
I had similar issues when I did the Donnet-Leveque, but repainting is definitely the way to go, and well worth the effort in the end.

Ian
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: NigelR on October 10, 2023, 06:02:18 PM
Good effort, this is very challenging.
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: KiwiZac on October 11, 2023, 05:33:48 AM
Now that is clever. I have a 1/48 project needing similar treatment and now I think I'll be able to do it justice...if I can muster the patience!
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: NigelR on October 11, 2023, 06:06:37 PM
I've just been looking at some images of the real thing and I think you are right to redo it. The contrast is too strong IMO, in 1/72 you need to keep it subtle. Best of luck, it looks like a tough effect to pull off.......
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: kensar on October 11, 2023, 09:59:17 PM
You're putting a lot of work into this and it will show in the end.
Meanwhile, you have quite a challenge with the fuselage.
Best of luck with it!
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: lone modeller on October 14, 2023, 08:26:17 AM
Catching up on this: you have achieved much since I last looked in, most of it of a very high standard. Shame about the fuselage but I agree with you and others, a repaint will pay dividends because you are making such a good model that it would be a shame to spoil it with a poor finish.

A new type to me but very interesting.

Stephen.
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: Tim Mixon on October 17, 2023, 08:27:06 AM
Part 6.

I decided to remove the monocoque fuselage join strip and replace it with a thinner Evergreen strip before repainting.
.(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202310/2970975_bebd7d7b743500cb4fe519e24e04e395_t.jpeg)

Next I repainted the fuselage after masking the wing surfaces
I started remasking the wood strips stopping at the fuselage join. This is working much better!

.(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202310/2970975_49c1945452b538abac306dc5cd74cc3f_t.jpeg)

Here is the complete masking:
(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202310/2970975_658ef788106bf3ebc4c8862754252461_t.jpeg)

. (https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202310/2970975_ad5bfccc8b32047136ac4179deb9e28c_t.jpeg)

I’ll repaint it next weekend when I get home.
Thanks for looking in!

Tim
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: NigelR on October 17, 2023, 08:20:57 PM
I hate masking! So well done for your perseverance!!
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: kensar on October 17, 2023, 09:34:35 PM
Wow, that is a lot of strips.
From pictures I have seen, the strips are not the same width and are uneven, so don't worry about making the strips perfectly aligned.

(https://i.postimg.cc/xCQY2p3d/dsc4369-medium.jpg)
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: PrzemoL on October 17, 2023, 09:53:22 PM
Oh my, what a project. First of all I do admire you resolution to tackle such a crude kit. And you are getting the amazing results. I will keep watching :)
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: Dutch522 on October 17, 2023, 11:12:40 PM
Really enjoying this build log, one of the main things that I love about this group is that nobody hides the dead ends in their processes—like your first attempt at the diagonal veneering, or Mike N's radiator shutter-controls on his Biff—which to me shows the sort of attention to detail that marks truly fine model(l)ing.

Dutch
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: Tim Mixon on November 08, 2023, 07:24:55 AM
As finished as it’s going to get!


Sometimes a kit just gets the better of you. Since my return to scale model building in mid 2000, I have only trash binned one kit. I’ll leave it unnamed as to not draw undue attention from this build.
It was all I could do not to trash this one though!   Ill fitting parts, many many screw ups, flawed techniques, etc. etc. I dropped it near completion and knocked out putty from the fuselage necessitating a third repaint.
I decided if I put it away it would never get finished.  I have no incomplete “shelf of doom “ projects to date. So, I rushed this across the finish line just to get it done and out of sight.
Sorry I have no more in progress shots to add to the build log:
The turnbuckles are leftovers from a Part Gotha G-IV set.

(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202311/2970975_306bd0bb8c099b1afb49864d3ad7f731_t.jpeg)

The prop spinner is from a Roden Albatros D-II.
Prop and wheels are Aeroclub

(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202311/2970975_0589c46a6f32cb4ae6c4b8766f5c3f76_t.jpeg)

(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202311/2970975_287e3f702ffc6499c87426a55c1dfa38_t.jpeg)

Rigged with fine black EZ line.

(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202311/2970975_aa12a699498445956a80f46bfc1243f2_t.jpeg)

The only reason I’m posting pictures is because this was one of the top choices in my survey.
Now on to the Armstrong Whitworth FK-10.

Thanks for looking in!

Tim
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: PJ Fisher on November 08, 2023, 09:32:28 AM
sorry, but your diagonal woodgrain is going the opposite way as the original.  you'll have to start all over again.


just kiddin'!  looks amazing!
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: Tim Mixon on November 08, 2023, 11:42:46 AM
sorry, but your diagonal woodgrain is going the opposite way as the original.  you'll have to start all over again.



Ha Ha. You funny GI.   😂

Thanks though.
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: Dutch522 on November 08, 2023, 01:11:39 PM
Looks pretty good from here, Tim, congrats on beating it into shape... onwards to the Koolhoven!

Dutch
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: djuggie on November 08, 2023, 02:52:50 PM
Tim,

What a beautiful model.  12 Square models makes vacuforming look easy.  They are rough kits to build but you did it justice.  A kit to be proud of.

Dennis
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: lone modeller on November 09, 2023, 04:23:32 AM
Well I think that you have done an amazing job on that one. A type which is new to me and a finish which I would never have attempted: congratulations on completing it so well.

Stephen.
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: KiwiZac on November 09, 2023, 09:26:08 AM
I'm so sorry you had so much trouble, but to me the end result is beautiful! I'd be proud to have it at the front of my shelf!
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: NigelR on November 17, 2023, 07:37:23 PM
You got there! It looks pretty good to me, and it's a very unique subject. Well done.
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: IanB on November 19, 2023, 02:17:46 AM
A decent result bearing in mind what you started with!
I have a Deperdussin resin kit in the stash....one day...

Ian
Title: Re: 1/72 Deperdussin Monocoque
Post by: Tim Mixon on November 28, 2023, 03:17:48 AM
I’ve taken a few better photos and posted them on the Completed Models thread:
(https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/45241/202311/2970975_715419792414eaf990be078a969f3592_t.jpeg)