forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com

WW1 Aircraft Modeling => What's New => Topic started by: Des on January 28, 2013, 09:53:01 AM

Title: Affordable 3D Printer
Post by: Des on January 28, 2013, 09:53:01 AM
Check this out guys, scroll down and watch the video clip that is with the listing, it is quite interesting. Maybe this is the start of very affordable 3D printers for the model maker.

Des.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/3Dstuffmakers-cREATOR-3D-Printer-Portable-3D-Model-Maker-/181068472921?pt=AU_Toys_Hobbies_Model_Kits&hash=item2a2885a259
Title: Re: Affordable 3D Printer
Post by: bobs_buckles on January 28, 2013, 08:29:47 PM
You going to buy one?
Buying the printer is the easy part. Learning the software is a whole new ballgame and one that scares the pants off me  ;)

vB
Title: Re: Affordable 3D Printer
Post by: Des on January 28, 2013, 08:50:48 PM
No Bob, I won't be buying one, I'm too old to be learning new tricks, I have enough trouble keeping my website and forum running let alone  trying to get my head around a whole new, and complicated, software program.

Des.
Title: Re: Affordable 3D Printer
Post by: bobs_buckles on January 28, 2013, 09:26:39 PM
You're never too old to learn new trick, Des!  :D

vB
Title: Re: Affordable 3D Printer
Post by: Rizzo on January 28, 2013, 09:57:49 PM
I don't think affordable 3d printers quite have the accuracy needed yet, but maybe something will come along in a few years time. When you look at the parts they make close up, they still look quite poor. Perhaps an alternative method to make the basis of a fuselage tub or something, but not anything that could be used directly from the printer.

So far it seems to be only small companies that are really pushing to produce affordable home printers. Maybe it's the requirement to have knowledge of CAD software that's holding bigger companies back?

I've paid for a company to print parts out for me, using a very expensive Objet printer, and it being quite simple surfaces in 1/16 scale. There's still a lot of work needed to get the parts into a useable state. I've also had problems with the the thin surfaces warping, and it wasn't cheap either. So I'm not convinced by the technology myself just yet, although no doubt it will get much better quite quickly.
Title: Re: Affordable 3D Printer
Post by: uncletony on January 28, 2013, 10:18:36 PM
I have a good friend who has a very successful rapid prototyping business; I've watched this technology explode in the last 15 years from close up. All indications are that the migration from high-end, B2B applications, towards consumer oriented applications, is in full swing. IMO it is identical to what happened with print technology in the 80s. Everybody in the industry is talking about it, the smart guys (like my friend) are working to reshape their businesses to be in position to take advantage.

I agree with everything Rizzo says above; it's still a bit out of reach, certainly for the mainstream modeler. But make no mistake, it is coming and will impact our hobby.  I think the first thing we'll see is more accessible services (software, prices, customer service) followed later by truly useful affordable equipment.
Title: Re: Affordable 3D Printer
Post by: rhallinger on January 29, 2013, 05:26:24 AM
One could reasonably expect something of a cottage industry to spring up for all sorts of aftermarket parts and conversion stuff once this becomes a bit more accessible to those who already have a bent for it.  Great days ahead for scale modelers! ;D

Regards,

Bob
Title: Re: Affordable 3D Printer
Post by: Ian from Doncaster on January 29, 2013, 05:44:17 AM
Imagine being able to download a WNW kit (or other maker) straight to your 3d printer at home...

Would be very useful for re-printing parts that get lost to the carpet monster or broken etc...

10-15 years away, or less?
Title: Re: Affordable 3D Printer
Post by: uncletony on January 29, 2013, 06:23:01 AM
One could reasonably expect something of a cottage industry to spring up for all sorts of aftermarket parts and conversion stuff once this becomes a bit more accessible to those who already have a bent for it.  Great days ahead for scale modelers! ;D

Regards,

Bob

It's already happening. Guess how the new Gaspatch turnbuckles and anemometer head are being made...
Title: Re: Affordable 3D Printer
Post by: rhallinger on January 29, 2013, 06:56:59 AM
Ahhhh . . . the future is here!
Title: Re: Affordable 3D Printer
Post by: uncletony on January 29, 2013, 07:58:25 AM
Ahhhh . . . the future is here!

Yes, but where's my jetpack?!?
Title: Re: Affordable 3D Printer
Post by: Chris Johnson on January 29, 2013, 11:02:44 AM
At least one AFV modeller is testing the waters with 3D. I've just ordered a set of his 1/35 periscope guards for Sherman tanks. The price seemed very reasonable to me and I think the process lends itself to fine detail parts like these.

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/3D_zps60bb6808.jpg)

For those who may be interested in the company he uses to print his designs, here's the link.

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/mmcdesign?sort=newest&l=36

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: Affordable 3D Printer
Post by: ALBATROS1234 on January 29, 2013, 04:11:31 PM
the technology is advancing everyday. at this point from what ive heard the $800 home model wouldnt have the clarity we need for the detail we crave. now it might be useful to make vac-u-form masters. say feed in dimesions for each fuselage half then vac em kinda like guys do when they make a split balsa block master. cept it would be perfectly symetrical etc. you could also do wing masters maybe that could be vac-u-formed. i think you need the 10.000 machine to just feed in data and print out a kit of the quality were used to.
Title: Re: Affordable 3D Printer
Post by: pepperman42 on January 30, 2013, 12:18:59 AM
Chris let us know how they look in the flesh. I noticed in the product notes the rod size is mfged 'oversized" but by how much is the question. Are they substantially better than kit parts? I will assume so. Sure beats folding up 2D p/e or scratching though.

Steve
Title: Re: Affordable 3D Printer
Post by: ermeio on January 30, 2013, 12:33:54 AM
Hi all
I think that 3D printers have already changed our hobby: WNW dream started when there was a 3D printer around, I have read.
I think that the 3D printing standards of services like the ones that we find online and of the printers now on the market are not up to what we will see in the next future, so we are only a step away from the next modlelling revolution
ermeio
Title: Re: Affordable 3D Printer
Post by: GAJouette on January 30, 2013, 12:38:20 AM
  Very interesting this 3-D printing process. It sounds as if nearly any item can be printed for our use. I wonder though how durable the printed part would be, could it actually stand up to handling and or use?
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
Title: Re: Affordable 3D Printer
Post by: Chris Johnson on January 30, 2013, 12:46:47 AM
Chris let us know how they look in the flesh. I noticed in the product notes the rod size is mfged 'oversized" but by how much is the question. Are they substantially better than kit parts? I will assume so. Sure beats folding up 2D p/e or scratching though.

Steve

Will do Steve. I'm taking a flyer on this order as I'm hoping that the rods don't look out of scale and they're at least as hardy as plastic injection ones. Making these guards out of brass rod drives me batty and I'm never happy with the result.

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: Affordable 3D Printer
Post by: uncletony on January 30, 2013, 05:57:52 AM
  Very interesting this 3-D printing process. It sounds as if nearly any item can be printed for our use. I wonder though how durable the printed part would be, could it actually stand up to handling and or use?
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette

It depends on the particular process and material being employed. There are SLA plastics that are essentially the equivalent of what we are used to from resin aftermarket, there are SLS materials that are extremely tough like ABS; there are metal sintering processes too that make quite tough parts (see the gaspatch turnbuckles)

The full color processes currently tend to be quite delicate -- the stuff is almost like crystallized sugar -- but can produce some fairly amazing stuff.
Title: Re: Affordable 3D Printer
Post by: GAJouette on January 31, 2013, 01:30:11 AM
  Bo,
Thanks for the information my friend I very much appreciate it. I'm wondering if this new 3D printing process might become the next vacuform craze like in the 80's. Sure has possilblity to produce all sorts of models.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
Title: Re: Affordable 3D Printer
Post by: ALBATROS1234 on January 31, 2013, 05:56:10 AM
thats how i'm thinkin greg. print out say a 1/32 dolphin fuselage in a left and right half, then vac-u-form it. just that would be a time saver than whitling it out of balsa ala woodman.
Title: Re: Affordable 3D Printer
Post by: GAJouette on January 31, 2013, 06:05:09 AM
  Scott,
I suppose you could print a hollow fuselage in halves or whole ifyou wanted. Time will tell, but I believe this could be a real boon to modelers.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
Title: Re: Affordable 3D Printer
Post by: Captain Slower on February 02, 2013, 07:50:46 AM
Take your WNW German propeller, make a 3D scan of it and slice it into 7 horizonal pieces, which match the laminations.  Paint 3 light, 4 dark, assemble, varnish and decal.... ::)
Title: Re: Affordable 3D Printer
Post by: wunwinglow on February 02, 2013, 09:49:07 AM
I've been lucky enough to work with these technologies for over a decade, and have seen the prices fall, and some of the technologies improve. The recent boom in affordable hobby devices is interesting, but if I was spending my own money, I'd still buy a cnc milling set up. The RP solutions are still very crude in terms of surface quality in comparison with injection moulded parts, and depending on the technique, there are questions over strength, warpage, paint and glue compatability and much more. Give it another 5 years, then maybe the hobby priced devices will do something actually useful. Until then, be prepared to have to do a lot of surface finishing. With a cnc milling set up, you have a much wider choice of materials, far better accuracy and surface quality, just as good repeatability and more.

Of course, both will require a lot of effort to learn how to use them effectively, and if you want to design your own parts, you will need to get good with you favourite cad software. And your research efforts will need to be top notch too. The old adage 'rubbish in, rubbish out' is just as valid as it ever was!

If you want to try these technologies, there are dozens of bureaux where you can up load a file and get it built, before you spend a fortune on a machine that might not do what you hoped it would.

Just my own opinion of course, but one based on 12 Years of actually using these technologies, rather than just reading brochures an journalists puff sheets.....

Tim

ps the gaspatch turnbuckles are very neat, very strong, most impressed with them. but then, they have been built on a £100k plus machine.....
Title: Re: Affordable 3D Printer
Post by: uncletony on February 02, 2013, 11:42:09 AM

ps the gaspatch turnbuckles are very neat, very strong, most impressed with them. but then, they have been built on a £100k plus machine.....

Yes, of course, nor was I suggesting otherwise. What is semi-revolutionary is the accessibility of these technologies to cottage industries ... like suppliers of fine-scale metal turnbuckles for WWI plastic modelers... This is here today, and it did not require a $100k+ equipment investment on the part of the vendor.
Title: Re: Affordable 3D Printer
Post by: Chris Johnson on February 08, 2013, 04:54:46 AM
Chris let us know how they look in the flesh. I noticed in the product notes the rod size is mfged 'oversized" but by how much is the question. Are they substantially better than kit parts? I will assume so. Sure beats folding up 2D p/e or scratching though.


I received my Shapeway 3D printed 1/35 scale Sherman periscope guards in the mail today. Shapeway is located in Queens N.Y. and prints the parts on demand. I ordered them on 27Jan13 so the turn around here to Ontario, Canada was quite good. They came via UPS packed in a stout cardboard box, well protected by bubble wrap.

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/AFVs/DSCN4456-600_zpsfdd8f85e.jpg)

These parts are quite small at 11 mm in length and as you see below, are delicate too. The rods measure 0.60 mm in diameter with my digital caliper and to my eye, are not oversized at all.

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/AFVs/DSCN4457-600_zps213538fa.jpg)

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/AFVs/DSCN4460-600_zps1d9d2a33.jpg)

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/AFVs/DSCN4468-600_zpsee308af0.jpg)

They're also quite robust too. I gently sliced one guard from the backing sheet with a sharp #11 scalpel blade. They don't flex when pressure is applied, so it's a bit disconcerting when each leg pops free, but there was no damage incurred during the process.

I paid $20.00 delivered to my door for this package of 50 guards which will last me for a long time. In my opinion, they're superior to plastic, resin or PE examples I've used over the years.

This 3D process should have widespread application in aircraft modelling too. If Shapeways has made it economically feasible for an AFV modeller with some CAD talent to offer aftermarket parts, I hope that some enterprising aircraft modeller will also take the bull by the horns and look into Shapeway too.

Cheers,

Chris

P.S. I have absolutely no affiliation with Shapeway.
Title: Re: Affordable 3D Printer
Post by: pepperman42 on February 08, 2013, 07:26:20 AM
Chris thanks for the update. They do look very good and $20 all up is very good for that many. Im not complaining but if the GP turnbuckles were that price for that many I would order a lot more all at once. I know the turnbuckles are metal but the way you describe removing the guards from the backer sheet it appears these are pretty robust too.Thanks again

Steve 
Title: Re: Affordable 3D Printer
Post by: GAJouette on February 08, 2013, 01:22:34 PM
  Chris,
WOW those periscope guards look great my old friend. Are they near scale tubing in size? I wonder if Shapeway can print up a pair of new kneecaps?
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette