forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Topic started by: jxeboy on January 15, 2013, 09:58:42 AM
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Hello everyone,
As you can see I am new on the forum here. I hope this is the section to post something like this, if not please feel free to move it to wherever it fits!
I have just finished college (I studied History and German!), and I am eagerly job searching. Although this is a time-consuming process, there are some dull moments, and today was one of them. I have been thinking of constructive ways to use my time and after reading "September Evening", a biography of sorts about Werner Voss, I decided I wanted to build a model of his airplane.
Now, I know what people are going to say. "He didn't fly an E-III!" And of course I know this. While browsing for a nice DR.1 at my local hobby store (which has a very depressing selection by the way), I saw a section full of very old kits, and sandwiched between two modern fighterjets was this little beauty,
(http://imageshack.us/a/img705/3548/img8363k.jpg)
I always liked the E.III. It fascinates me how quickly the aeroplane developed in just a short 15 years. The E.III ties it all together for me. It is the metaphorical "bridge" between prewar and wartime aviation.
Now, I do have some experience building models, but it is very laughable to say the least. Just a handful of hastily slapped together models from when I was 15 or so. I do know generally how to do the basics, but I want this model to really look the part.
Taking everything out of the box I was pleasantly surprised all of the parts seem to be here.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img843/364/img4021pf.jpg)
What I was not pleasantly surprised about however was the quality of the model. It is very mediocre, I don't even believe it has any sort of cockpit modeled. But it is my first model I am doing for quite some time, so I believe it will go alright. Hopefully the decals still work alright!
I decided I will try to make this kit look like Immelmann's E.III, as he was the first ace of the war, and this is my first model of the war!
I am looking for suggestions on how to begin this kit. I suppose the first thing I should do is worry about preping and painting the main body, but I really want a too canvas looking, and not just a solid yellow/tan. I assume the best way might be to spray the body with the solid color, and then go through and try 'weathering' it? I would appreciate any and all suggestions I could get.
I believe that's all I have to say for now, until next time!
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My first suggestion would be to set aside a few hours and read through some of the build logs here. Don't be intimidated -- there are all levels of skill on display and everybody is learning. But I guarantee you will find tons of great ideas and probably a lot of inspiration. The previous group build theme on this forum was old kits, and you will find several folks tackled kits similiar in quality to yours...
Good luck and welcome aboard!
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Building on what Bo has written, I'd also encourage you to visit Des' main web site as it's a treasure trove of information on building WWI aircraft. Compared to the workmanship you'll see here on the forum, I'm nothing more than a plain cook when it comes to building these aircraft but the membership here are unfailingly helpful and encouraging. I'm sure you'll benefit from their expertise.
Good luck with your job search!
Cheers,
Chris
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http://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=309.0
The above link will take you to a build of this aeroplane in 1:72 scale, it was in our GB not too long ago, hope you find it helpful, and welcome to the forum, so good to have you here with us.
Des.
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Welcome back to modelling!
This was also my first kit after 30 something years away from the hobby. It's not a great kit and needs a lot of work, but as a re-introduction to the hobby it works well. If you really want it to be a more realistic reproduction I would strongly suggest replacing the undercarriage and upper rigging struts with thinner plastic or brass rod - they are way too thick. As far as the weathering, take a look at the Pfalz group build logs. I would use a dark pastel, just scrape a little of the pastel stick into a small container and apply using a small brush, very small quantities at a time, building it up until you get to where you want it to be. Mask off the back edge of the fuselage formers and do one at a time, blending in towards the front.
Also make sure you use thin fishing line for rigging, not invisible mending thread, which is too thick.
Have fun!
Ian
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...and don't be afraid to ask questions. I've only got one more build notch in my belt than you, but I never felt intimidated in asking questions. Besides, I've covered a lot of the really dumb ones already!
Welcome to the forum, I think you'll enjoy your time on here.
Lindsay
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Wow, I'm astonished at the quick responses.
I believe I have decided on how I will decorate this machine.
(http://www.military-art.com/mall/images/dhm1565.jpg)
I know that this is an E.I, but it is after all not so different from an E.III, especially in a not-so detailed model.
I am sure I will have more specific questions as I continue.
For now my first is, what color is best for the canvas covering on these older planes?
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Wow, I'm astonished at the quick responses.
I believe I have decided on how I will decorate this machine.
(http://www.military-art.com/mall/images/dhm1565.jpg)
I know that this is an E.I, but it is after all not so different from an E.III, especially in a not-so detailed model.
I am sure I will have more specific questions as I continue.
For now my first is, what color is best for the canvas covering on these older planes?
Wingnut Wings specifies Tamiya XF60 Dark Yellow for "Fokker Beige". It seems well accepted that most Fokker Es were doped with an opaque color, apparently beige, but not simply "clear doped linen." (CDL)
The great thing (or frustrating thing, depending on your temperament)I'd that WWI colors are highly speculative, there is room for interpretation and even artistic license...
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Well not much to show for today's very first day of progress, but something nonetheless!
(http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/9530/img2264el.jpg)
I am quickly realizing I am going to need to pick up a lot of different enamels to get things how I want it. I want to make each cylinder a tiny bit darker (I know I shouldn't paint over stuff, so I will reconsider it!).
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Hello and welcome jxeboy, you've landed at an awesome forum - as you've seen, most questions are quickly answered and it doesn't matter how simplistic or 'green' the question is, all are treated with respect and patience (which I know from experience!!).
Andrew
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It seems well accepted that most Fokker Es were doped with an opaque color, apparently beige, but not simply "clear doped linen." (CDL)
I have to backtrack on this statement a little bit. What's accepted is that the finish on most Es was opaque. Also, the general consensus is that most were a straw or beige color. What is unclear (at least to me) is whether this opacity was a result of a layer of dope, or some characteristic.of the canvas employed.
There is a very interesting picture of the Immelmann wreck which appears to show that the canvas was a distinctly lighter shade on the inside. (You can find this pic on the WNW website, E.III late kit, archive pix, last pic.)
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Well not much to show for today's very first day of progress, but something nonetheless!
I am quickly realizing I am going to need to pick up a lot of different enamels to get things how I want it. I want to make each calendar a tiny bit darker (I know I shouldn't paint over stuff, so I will reconsider it!).
Hello and welcome to the Forum: As has been stated there is a lot of knowledge and we all build to our own abilities and learn as we go.
If you are using an enamel paint like Testors or Humbrol or similar you need to use an acrylic to bring out the highlights. So, what has worked for me on the engines to bring out the cooling fins is one of two things. I use a thin wash of India ink, which you can get at any Artist supply store. It works well by thinning with water, a drop on the brush, a dip in some water and move it around for the desired effect. Another is an acrylic paint thinned with water and doing the same thing. Rather than repaint your motor, try that to bring out the cooling fins. Remember, to have fun doing this. You will also need to get some good paint. I like the Tamiya acrylics. They air brush nicely, are a bit fiddly to brush paint, but thinned a bit they are alright. I usually use laquer thinner or MEK for thinning the paint for air brushing. I also use a respirator. If you are going to brush paint, I have found Polly S to be a good paint for brush painting.
Hope this helps and have fun.
Best
Mark
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Great kit. I bought one last Saturday, and (almost) finished it today. I am also working on a 1:32 Sopwith Camel, but since I had some bad luck and I am still practicing
painting wood structure, I felt the need for a snack...! ;-)
I came across the E-III quite a few times, recently, and decided to buy and build the model. Its shapes and colors are very pleasing. I thought this would be an easy kit
but looks are deceiving, even though it's "only" a 1:72 scale model... And it's a delicate kit, as you have found out already.
The latest Revell re-issue does not include that wonderful stand. Too bad. Your picture explains the gap on the sprue.
Tomorrow I shall post some pics of my model and talk about some of the good and bad things I encountered during the build.
__________
Erik.
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Great kit. I bought one last Saturday, and (almost) finished it today. I am also working on a 1:32 Sopwith Camel, but since I had some bad luck and I am still practicing
painting wood structure, I felt the need for a snack...! ;-)
I came across the E-III quite a few times, recently, and decided to buy and build the model. Its shapes and colors are very pleasing. I thought this would be an easy kit
but looks are deceiving, even though it's "only" a 1:72 scale model... And it's a delicate kit, as you have found out already.
The latest Revell re-issue does not include that wonderful stand. Too bad. Your picture explains the gap on the sprue.
Tomorrow I shall post some pics of my model and talk about some of the good and bad things I encountered during the build.
__________
Erik.
I don't think I'll use the stand to be honest, maybe I will...
I also notice most people don't put the pilots in their planes. Any reason for this?
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Ususally because they aren't included with kits anymore. Whereas kits used to have stands and a pilot to portray a plane in flight, nowadays they tend to be displayed 'landed' and without a pilot so that you can see all of the internal detail. It isn't unusual for 50% or more of the parts of a modern kit to be interior detail.
Ah that makes a lot of sense.
Now I must figure out how I want to do this kit. It really has no cockpit detail at all. I am unsure of my skills for making something myself.
Hmmm
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I think if you look at some of the old kit 1/72 builds here you should get some ideas. I think fashioning a seat and a rudimentary control column are probably within reach for most, if that seems too hard then as RB says, don't sweat it, it's your model!
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Hello Jxeboy: I agree with the Red Baron. Build the kit as is. Do a good job on the basics, seam hiding, painting, rigging, preshading, weathering etc. Paint the pilot and put him in for good measure, always adds a bit of interest and scale. If you haven't built a kit in quite awhile, you could get really bogged trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear. Like Red Baron states, "enjoy it for what it is, an old kit." I have a collection of Aurora 1/48 kits, and every so often I pull one out and just build it for nostalgia and just to work on basics.
Good luck
Mark
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Welcome Jxeboy! There's something very special to me about building a simple kit that's a part of our cultural heritage growing up in the 1960s. Just seeing that box art again brings back a flood of memories! :) Thanks for sharing it with us.
I agree with the others---just build this one as practice for your basic skills and don't worry too much about detailng. Have fun with it, but focus on doing the basics as well as you can.
BTW, I really like that painting you found of the EIII---very cool! Enjoy this one. We'll have fun following your progress!
Regards,
Bob
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Thanks again for all the feedback so far. First an updated picture!
(http://imageshack.us/a/img197/9356/img3403j.jpg)
So it has fully begun now! So far I am pleased with what I'm doing. I'm not 100% happy with the coloring on the propeller, but I'm not sure I could do much better simply drawing on with a brush. It is extremely little at 1/72.
I have also begun work on the "cockpit" area. Actually I have finished it too! There is very little to be done here. I am still undecided if I will put the pilot in the plane, but I can always add him at the last minute with little trouble.
Now I have two new questions which I have come to. First is about the color of the paint I will be using for the fuselage. I have bought Model Master Light Ivory 2909, which I think is a lovely color for this piece. Unfortunately the decals are so old the white is almost the same exact color! My question here is whether I should maybe go try and find new decals, or if I might be able to paint over the white with some white after I apply them.
Here below you can see a comparison between the spray color I am using and the Decals. Too close!
(http://imageshack.us/a/img194/7632/img0421hj.jpg)
Any suggestions? If all else fails maybe I will need to buy a more yellow spray.
Thanks again!
~Jake
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Great start, Jake, and welcome to the forum. I agree with all of the above. Just use this kit to get your feet wet and enjoy the experience.
Cheers,
Bud
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Jake,
I think this model is worth finding a new set of decals. I just finished mine and it is a great looking kit.
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j401/ETG66/Dsc_9292_zpsc040dca0.jpg)
The decals will NOT improve over time, so finding white decals will pay off.
Do a lot of dry fitting before final assembly and gluing. For instance, the seat is too wide. When parts 7 and 8 (fuselage bottom and seat) are dryfitted, you will see that the wing, part 15, will be
a very tight fit ! And you will end up with two large seams at the bottom of the fuselage, part 14. Later, part 1+2+3 will not fit properly, either.
Speaking of the engine mount.....assemble parts 1+2+3, let it dry well and then test fit. You will see it does not fit very well at all. Lots of filing and sanding is needed to make it fit. The elliptical
openings, that slides over the leading edges, need to be enlarged.
The engine cowling part 16 fits properly, no modification required.
The main landing gear also fits properly. The tail skid assembly will need some work to make it fit. Dry fit parts 14 (top fuselage part) and wings (part 15). Where they meet, at the front,
they don't fit well, some filing may be required to make both parts fit well.
Attention: file away some plastic where the wings touch the cockpit sides ! If you don't, the wings will be pushed down ! Where I applied the silver decals, on each side of the cockpit wall,
that's where the wings need to be trimmed, all the way to the trailing edge. I filed away some plastic, until I could fold the wings a bit upwards, but just very lightly. Remember the seat is too wide?
Here's another reason to trim it down !
Be careful with the tail wings, they are fragile. I had to add superglue, after assembly, for extra strength.
The pilot was not added simply because it looks bad and it had a huge hole where his belly should be.... I painted some strips of paper and made the straps. I also made a simple control stick.
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j401/ETG66/Dsc_9293_zps3793fa1d.jpg)
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j401/ETG66/Dsc_9294_zps203d54a2.jpg)
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j401/ETG66/Dsc_9295_zps5b00021d.jpg)
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j401/ETG66/Dsc_9298_zps1eaf5b1b.jpg)
I used thin EZ-Line for the rigging. Maybe I should have added the control wires at the back, too. Maybe another time.... Oh......don't do what I did: work on a model late at night....
The next morning I saw I did apply all of the riggin, but not in the way I intended. I meticulously drilled some holes in the upper wing strut (part 22) but never used them. People who don't
know this airplane will never notice. But I do ! Dang.....now I have to buy this kit again and do it correctly, this time.
Again....do a lot of dry fitting before gluing parts in place. And do try to find better decals. You won't be sorry. Those horrible yellow decals will not improve over time.
Cheers,
___________
Erik.
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Hello Jxeboy:
Revell used Colortone for all of their decals, as did Scalemaster and ATP. The problem with Colortone products is that the carrier will yellow once on the model. As you can see time has yellowed the white portion of the decal, it will only get worse once on the model. There are plenty of after market markings, and investing a couple of bucks at the Squadron shop would pay dividends in the long run. Or, as someone mentioned, carefully cut out the crosses and apply them to white painted squares. You may find too that the decals are brittle and will shatter once they are off the carrier paper. Save yourself the headache and get a sheet from Squadron or a vendor of your choice. There are plenty out there. What has worked with some limited success is to put the decal in a plastic zip lock bag and tape to a south facing window and let the sun bleach the decal. If you are in the southern hemisphere it would be a north facing window. Either way, it does work, takes a bit of time but it will bleach most of the yellow out.
Best of luck
Mark
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You could always try cutting squares from plain white decal paper, then carefully cutting the crosses from the background and applying them over your new white backgrounds....just a thought...
Ian
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Thanks for the feedback. Another issue I'm running into is making holes in the wings for the rigging. The plastic is so old I'm afraid it might splinter. I was hoping to just force a pin through each wing, but I don't think that will work. What do you guys use for super small holes like this?
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have a look here...
http://drillbitsunlimited.com/Default.aspx
ciao
Edo
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Edo, those are excellent drills, no doubt about it. I use them myself.
But do not forget to mention that they are VERY fragile ! And they are not cheap. Please allow me to add another option: spiral drills. See my building thread of the 1:32 Sopwith Camel.
I followed Des's advice to glue them into a tooth pick or piece of bamboo BBQ skewer. These drills are very flexible and don't break as easily as the other ones. They are much cheaper
and because the steel is somewhat softer, they can be sharpened with a grinding disc and dremel. I think this type of drill may be a better choice, at the moment, for Edo.
http://www.uktools.com/03mm-hawera-hss-roll-forged-twist-drill-p-60927.html
I bought mine here :
http://www.modelbouwshoptwente.nl/prod/hss-boor-0-3-mm
At first you might think the little sachet is empty, but somewhere in there are the drills you ordered.....! ;-)
Edo, you could order a few of both types and see for yourself which one suits your needs best.
Don't worry about the plastic, it may be old but it is not brittle. Forcing a pin through WILL damage the wing quite a bit. The pin will bend or break the moment you try, anyway.
And should you succeed the hole will be way too big. I used a 0.4 mm spiral drill to drill the holes in my E-III.
Welcome to the world of WW1 scale model building ! ;-)
_________
Erik.
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I may have to invest in a drill set soon, but I figured out another way to do the holes. I took a very fine needle and heated it up using a lighter to puncture through each of the holes. Worked surprisingly well.
Now I am in the process of spraying the body. My only real obstacle left is figuring out if im able to salvage the decals, or if I should try to find some new ones.
Getting close!
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Quick little update.
Have most of the parts painted now. I will begin assembling the landing gear to attach to the model. I still don't know exactly how I will do the decals, but I will figure it out soon enough. Right now I need to get the front engine housing attached to the main plane. It does not fit very well!
(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/7/img0124kc.jpg)
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Great start, Jake. Looking good so far.
Cheers,
Bud
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Thats shaping up very nicely. Good colour!
Steve
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Right now I need to get the front engine housing attached to the main plane. It does not fit very well!
.....told you so.....
I hope you read my post at page 2 ...? Lots of good building tips, there. ;)
_________
Erik
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Mate a great build here. When it comes to decals you can stick them to the window for few days they should get whiter.