forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com

WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Topic started by: MoFo on March 22, 2022, 01:13:50 PM

Title: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: MoFo on March 22, 2022, 01:13:50 PM
I'm currently awaiting delivery of a large format resin printer, so while I wait, I've been designing another Zeppelin model to print on it: Z XII.



Z XII was one of the first Zeppelins built during the Great War and the only N Class Airship.  As an early war design, in many ways it bridges between the pre-war passenger airships and the war time bomber/reconnaissance airships.  It introduced changes such as the duralumin structure and central keel, but maintained the external keel of the passenger airships.  The gondolas were enclosed, with the front using a pusher propellor for the first time, while the airship lost the venetian blind-like array of tailplanes for a simpler, cruciform tail structure.  It had a successful career spent mostly on the Eastern Front, before being retired to training and development and, astonishingly, managed to survive the war.  It was the first airship to bomb Paris, the first to use an external 'sub-cloud car' for navigation, and it was the first aircraft to use a standoff guided weapon: the Siemens Torpedo Glider.  This is how I plan to finish my build, in a late-war sheme with dark envelope with a lighter top section, and a pair of torpedo bombs slung underneath.



(https://www.windsockdatafilespecials.co.uk/ekmps/shops/gcreasey/images/zeppelins-at-war-1914-1915-973-p.jpg)


...as seen here, which also happens to be my primary reference, using the excellent scale drawings contained therein.  The volume covers the history of all the early Zeppelins used in the war, with special focus on Z XII and the O Class ship LZ39.
Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: MoFo on March 22, 2022, 01:18:36 PM
Sooo... how to design a model kit.



The first step was to scan the scale drawings, re-size them to the correct scale dimensions, then carefully trace the key dimensions - the outline of the airship, location of the tails, gas cell locations, etc.  This is a fairly slow, tedious task with a lot of time spent fretting over fractions of a mm (mostly needlessly) and wondering which side of a line to trace to.



(https://i.imgur.com/tE6B53t.jpg)





This process also serves to get the gist of the shapes into my head.  It familiarizes me with the intricacies of the subject and just generally helps me get up to speed.



With that done, the actual design work can start.



A cylinder with the diameter of the envelope was extruded for the nose, then excess was cut away to form each individual facet.


(https://i.imgur.com/SMjEIvC.jpg)




The same process was repeated for the tail.  There's also quite a bit of cross-checking with the scale drawings and with reference photos, to ensure the creases are formed in the right locations - it's not just a simple 17-sided structure.


(https://i.imgur.com/7J2ow1z.jpg)




...and then a simple loft in between the two sections to finish the raw shape of the envelope.



(https://i.imgur.com/C8NBj5C.jpg)



With that done, I turned my attention to the keel, creating a loft to form the front end:


(https://i.imgur.com/T4ZpeXO.jpg)
 



...then the back...

 
(https://i.imgur.com/eL87HRf.jpg)


...then the transition sections...

 
(https://i.imgur.com/uURLlin.jpg)


Before completing the centre section:

 
(https://i.imgur.com/iV6rprT.jpg)


Which seems fairly straightforward, but required a bunch of planning, tweaking and revision.  The loft tool is powerful - it can make complex 3d shapes - but it's also kind of dumb and doesn't always do what you want it to.  It needs to be able to connect each vertex - each 'point' - from one sketch to a matching point on the next sketch.  Try to loft a square into a triangle, for instance, and things can go haywire. 
Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: MoFo on March 22, 2022, 01:23:15 PM
Next, attention moves to the tailplanes.  These were sketched out, then more complete detail drawings made, before the actual modelling was begun.

 

First, the framing is extruded:

(https://i.imgur.com/BzCmMEA.jpg)
 

Then the 'fabric' is extruded - slightly thinner than the framing, to give slight relief.

(https://i.imgur.com/sVoGBJ9.jpg)
 

Then various details added - the rudder trailing edged were chamfered to a thinner edge, fillets added to the tailplane leading edges, control horns(?) added, etc.  And the same process was repeated for the horizontal tailplanes.

(https://i.imgur.com/iHqiaYB.jpg)
 

The envelope was copied, then a thin shell is created as the basis of the framing detail.  The frames were then marked out and the areas between cut away from the shell, leaving a series of thin 'rib tape' rings, which are then merged with the original (correct size) envelope:

(https://i.imgur.com/kdXnjXh.jpg)
 

And finally, detail areas were cut out from the almost-complete envelope: windows, the gun platform, rigging points, etc.

(https://i.imgur.com/i38Xq4u.jpg)
Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: GazzaS on March 22, 2022, 01:30:49 PM
That is very interesting.  And impressive.  I'm looking forward to watching this come together.  How long will it be from stem to stern.
Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: MoFo on March 22, 2022, 03:11:18 PM
About 110 cm or 44 inches.
Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: lone modeller on March 23, 2022, 05:12:23 AM
That will be impressive when finished. I admire anyone who can handle the programme for 3D printing - it is certainly adding a new area to our hobby.

Stephen.
Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: KiwiZac on March 23, 2022, 05:58:26 AM
Fascinating stuff! I enjoy seeing projects like this in such detail, thank you for sharing so much of this journey.

I admire anyone who can handle the programme for 3D printing - it is certainly adding a new area to our hobby.
I'm learning CAD for just that purpose, but it isn't as easy to pick up as I'd initially thought.
Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: kensar on March 24, 2022, 12:08:08 AM
1/144 scale and still 44 inches long!!  These things must have been quite a sight in the air.
Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: Dirigible-Al on March 24, 2022, 03:44:18 AM
Hi MoFo.
The N Class is a great choice, a really cool looking Zeppelin. Will it have any of the SSW Torpedo Gliders attached?
Alan.
Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: Beto on March 24, 2022, 09:05:53 AM
What a great (in many senses) project!!! - Greetings!

Maybe I'm wrong, but I prefer to say it now that the problem can be addressed... in the last render the rings don't seem to be equidistant lengthwise as I think they should be. Have you checked that?

Cheers,
Beto
Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: Alexis on March 24, 2022, 10:25:05 AM
This is going to be good !


Alexis
Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: RAGIII on March 25, 2022, 03:49:28 AM
Like all of the others I will say this is/ will be an impressive build! Looking forward to your progress.
RAGIII
Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: MoFo on April 01, 2022, 03:23:04 AM
Sorry for the delay in responding.  I've been moving house. 

That will be impressive when finished. I admire anyone who can handle the programme for 3D printing - it is certainly adding a new area to our hobby.

Stephen.

Thanks.  CAD isn't hard per se, it's just a different skillset to be learned.  It's like airbrushing, or model building - the fundamentals aren't all that hard to understand, but mastering them takes time and patience.  It's a really cool feeling to design something on your PC and then hold it in your hand once printed, though.

Fascinating stuff! I enjoy seeing projects like this in such detail, thank you for sharing so much of this journey.

I admire anyone who can handle the programme for 3D printing - it is certainly adding a new area to our hobby.
I'm learning CAD for just that purpose, but it isn't as easy to pick up as I'd initially thought.

I'm hoping it will serve as a bit of a tutorial for anyone interested in the digital side of things, rather than just showing a completed model as "here's one I made earlier".  If there's anything you want to see in more detail, LMK. 

One of the biggest hurdles I found with learning CAD was simply figuring out how to think about applying steps.  I did a lot of design, then undo because I'd done things in the wrong order, then re-do because inserting a process broke all the other operations.  Not a terrible way to learn though - once you've thorn away six hours work because you messed something up on the first step, you tend to remember that lesson!  :)

1/144 scale and still 44 inches long!!  These things must have been quite a sight in the air.

They were ridiculous.  They were basically the size of battleships, floating in the sky.  And this is a 'small' one - the Hindenburg is 5'8" in 1/144.

Hi MoFo.
The N Class is a great choice, a really cool looking Zeppelin. Will it have any of the SSW Torpedo Gliders attached?
Alan.

Yeah, it is cool with the gondola underneath.  Next up will be one of the pre-war passenger ships, with the ridiculous-looking mass of control surfaces.  They look like Venetian blinds!  :)  And yes, the plan is to have the gliders underneath.

What a great (in many senses) project!!! - Greetings!

Maybe I'm wrong, but I prefer to say it now that the problem can be addressed... in the last render the rings don't seem to be equidistant lengthwise as I think they should be. Have you checked that?

Cheers,
Beto

Thanks!  And grrr!  But thanks!  I appreciate the criticism.  Good eye - the spacing was indeed wrong.  That's what I get for just following the drawings, rather than double checking the measurements.  They should be spaced 10m apart (that's one of the defining characteristics of the N class - it was the first Zeppelin to adopt the standard 10m spacing), mine were not only uneven, but the wrong spacing.  Fudge.

So, it's fixed now (will update later), but what seemed like a simple fix - just adjust the spacing - essentially involved re-building the entire airship.  The cool thing (and the curse) about Zeppelins is that they're quite 'mathematical' in their design.  Everything is spaced at even distances (to the meter, even if those measurements aren't all the same).  Everything lines up (the gun platform aligns to a main station; the rigging and struts line up with stations), which makes it easier to draft... but if something is off, it has ripples through the rest of the work.  So in this case, a 'simple' re-work of the stations meant re-designing the envelope gondola, the envelope itself, and the gun platform, plus all the location points for the struts, rigging and external gondolas (gondolae).  About the only things that didn't need altered were the tailplanes.  Sigh.

(but I do appreciate it - I've seen another Zeppelin being built elsewhere that has the ribs in the wrong locations, and it drives me nuts!)

This is going to be good !


Alexis

I hope so.

Like all of the others I will say this is/ will be an impressive build! Looking forward to your progress.
RAGIII

Thanks.
Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: Ringleheim on April 04, 2022, 01:14:22 AM
I really enjoyed watching this come together with the CAD design work.  Very nice job!

I would LOVE a 44 inch sized zeppelin kit!  I know there are a couple on the market now, but they are quite small and that defeats the point.

As someone above said, an object of this size would be something like 1.5 football fields long.  You can only imagine it slowly and quietly moving through the sky towards its target.  It must have been an early form of psychological warfare.  I know I would be scared silly seeing this thing slowly coasting towards its target!

Good luck with the project and I look forward to seeing more progress!



Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: MoFo on April 05, 2022, 08:31:01 AM
I would LOVE a 44 inch sized zeppelin kit!  I know there are a couple on the market now, but they are quite small and that defeats the point.

That could be arranged...  ;) 
Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: MoFo on April 05, 2022, 09:09:48 AM
Okay, moving forward...

I thought I'd do a deeper dive into the construction of the gondolas.  So here's a bit of a step-by-step.  This is just the processes involved; every process involves at least one sketch, which is the time consuming bit as you try to interpret the references and make an accurate part.  These sketches and processes tend to layer on top of each other, so if you find out you did something wrong earlier in the design, it can break subsequent steps, which means you've got to go back and repair things, so it can be a tedious process.  Tl;dr: it's not as easy as it looks :D

(https://i.imgur.com/AHy5RlF.jpg)
I decided to start with the main windows.  You have to start somewhere, and they seemed like a fairly central detail to 'hang' subsequent operations on.

(https://i.imgur.com/4L4oRR8.jpg)
(hard to see, but) next is a loft underneath, to blend the main, square section of window with the bottom of the gondola.

(https://i.imgur.com/Sph1SN8.jpg)
Then the front bottom of the gondola is extruded with a slight taper.

(https://i.imgur.com/RQM2Y0i.jpg)
...and cut to shape.

(https://i.imgur.com/ei7i8tf.jpg)
The mid section is extruded from the roughed out front section.

(https://i.imgur.com/bNUkaOP.jpg)
And the various sketches completed so I can create a loft for the aft end of the gondola.  The cross-sectional sketches form, well, the cross-sections of the loft, but they have to be told where to go, or else they'll simply take the straightest path (or occasionally, a random, wild path...).  This requires additional sketches floating in space, to connect the cross sections.  It's actually a bit of a process to create these - flat planes are simple to trace, but sketches that are fully 3D end up requiring a ton of preparation and tweaking to perfect.  I'll often extrude, cut and loft temporary bodies so I can trace their (3D) outlines to get the necessary 3D sketch... then delete the bodies and use the resulting sketch to guide the loft.

(https://i.imgur.com/PimkVwn.jpg)
All that prep work done, the loft is completed.  I only did one half as it was easier to force the loft to do what I wanted.  I can mirror it later.

(https://i.imgur.com/NFb5eBv.jpg)
The roof is then extruded...

(https://i.imgur.com/HCnJrOH.jpg)
... and the entire model gets chopped in half.  This wasn't my original plan (or else I'd only have done one side of the front section) but after screwing around with the loft for a while, I decided it was the best option.  Doing two lofts side by side ran the risk of causing problems meshing with the rest of the model; mirroring just the loft might have worked, but in the end, cutting it in half gives me a single, flat surface I can use to mirror the other side, for a simpler construction.  It boosts the file size a bit, since it's more process-intensive, but I felt it was worth it.

(https://i.imgur.com/eFXNFBc.jpg)
Mirrored.  The final step to rough-out the gondola is to create a loft at the front of the roof.  This is a great example of using sketches to 'force' the loft into place - I'm trying to merge a triangle into a weird, six-sided shape.  Each of those grey lines tells the loft to go from point A to point B.  Without them it would fail, as it can't reconcile the the 'start' and 'end' sketches.

(https://i.imgur.com/GYeZpzd.jpg)
And the gondola is roughed out.  This completed body is then duplicated so that I can add details.  One body is hollowed out to create the main part of the gondola.  The other body is shelled outwards, adding thickness, so that I can model the raised surface details.

(https://i.imgur.com/vKU8pXA.jpg)
Here you can see a portion of the outward shelled body cut away, exposing the window area. 

(https://i.imgur.com/yYCb8W4.jpg)
The ribs are then cut out and merged with the main body.  I now have raised ribs on a hollow gondola.

(https://i.imgur.com/BQzcwiC.jpg)
Time for some windows.  The rear, open section is cut out.

(https://i.imgur.com/F49oCrt.jpg)
Front windows are recessed.

(https://i.imgur.com/n0Mmg2g.jpg)
Front windows are then cut out.  I've left a .25mm lip around each pane to fit a piece of acetate, once printed.

(https://i.imgur.com/dHznQ8v.jpg)
The left side's windows then get mirrored onto the right, and the front window is cut out.

(https://i.imgur.com/aWCh07s.jpg)
And the side windows are done in the same manner.

(https://i.imgur.com/yE90OFx.jpg)
The access hatch is cut in the roof.  Incidentally, most Zeppelin kits seem to include this as a 'tube' between the gondola and envelope; this doesn't seem to be correct, from my readings.  As far as I can tell, it was open there, so you'd get a blast of icy air traversing the Zeppelin.

(https://i.imgur.com/X6HW8sa.jpg)
This solid bit is added.  Not quite sure what to call it - it covers the connections between the gondola and the airship.

(https://i.imgur.com/SL1fld8.jpg)
Finally, the rear bumper is added and the gondola is complete.  I'm probably not going to detail the interior of this one; you really can't see it on the finished Q class, so there isn't much point.

Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: MoFo on April 05, 2022, 09:20:45 AM
Phew. 

And THEN, I did all that all over again, for the rear gondola!

(https://i.imgur.com/Pu5vo9x.jpg)

And with THAT done, I could start buttoning up the envelope model.

A new assembly was created and the scale drawings were turned back on, to help with locating everything.  Note that, after correcting the section spacing, the model no longer lines up with the scale drawings - they're wrong, mine is (more) right.  Hence the slight discrepancy.

(https://i.imgur.com/0uY02Uh.jpg)
The gondolas are imported and lined up.  I can now make location holes for the struts, rigging, access hatches and such.

(https://i.imgur.com/kQ3d0lr.jpg)
Like this.  They may not fully print, but the holes should at least give me a slight recess as a location point for drilling.

Next up: completing the gun platform, then prepping all the individual parts for print.  This is about where my enthusiasm wanes, as I'm still waiting for my large-format printer; the itch to wrap my head around the shapes is mostly scratched, and I'm stuck twiddling my thumbs.

Oh, and as a particularly annoying kick in the balls...  a different company has announced ANOTHER large-format printer, which is a whopping 1cm bigger, should be available sooner, and only slightly more expensive.  That 1cm may not sound like much, but it's JUUUUST enough to print all of the height climbers.
Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: Alexis on April 05, 2022, 09:44:14 AM
Don't understand a lot of this printing stuff , but it is impressive !


Alexis
Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: RAGIII on April 05, 2022, 10:20:41 AM
Don't understand a lot of this printing stuff , but it is impressive !


Alexis

Same Here!
RAGIII
Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: Beto on April 05, 2022, 07:25:36 PM
Very well done!!! - BTW, what printer do you recommend? I have an Elegoo Mars, but the printing surface is only 120x68mm
Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: KiwiZac on April 06, 2022, 03:42:04 AM
Seeing the CAD step by step makes the process seem so simple - I think the thing stopping me from attempting it is my mind telling me "this is too complicated, you can't do it" but this makes me think again! Beautiful work!
Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: MoFo on April 06, 2022, 05:12:29 AM
Very well done!!! - BTW, what printer do you recommend? I have an Elegoo Mars, but the printing surface is only 120x68mm

For printing this?  There aren't a lot of options.  I'm awaiting delivery of an Elegoo Jupiter, which seems well reviewed.  Anycubic has just released the Photon M3 Max, which is slightly bigger and slightly less expensive, IIRC, but Anycubic are a bit more 'walled garden' which can limit some features.  Phrozen's Mega 8K is bigger still, but they're Taiwanese, so have expensive, un-subsidized shipping which really raises costs.  :(

In general?  That's kind of a big question.  Anything from Anycubic, Elegoo, Epax or Phrozen will be solid, so it's mostly a question of matching size and features to your budget.  As I said, Anycubic is a little more 'walled garden' and seem to lack some features (like anti-aliasing) in some printers.  Elegoo's levelling method is weaker than the competition, so it's more prone to shifting (IMO).  Epax and Phrozen are based in the US and Taiwan, respectively, so tend to be more expensive, though IMO they're also a bit better built and a little more leading edge.

If I were buying today, I'd probably go with either the Phrozen Mini 8K or Elegoo Mars 3 for a small printer; The Saturn S or Mighty 4K for a medium size printer; and probably the M3 Max or Mega 8K for a large format printer.

Don't understand a lot of this printing stuff , but it is impressive !


Alexis

Same Here!
RAGIII

It's not too hard.  Fundamentally, a machine makes thin, 2D slices of an object, each on top of the last, slowly building up the completed 3D shape.  Think of it like a loaf of bread - each slice is kind of 2D, but when you stack them all together, you get the 3 dimensional loaf. 

Seeing the CAD step by step makes the process seem so simple - I think the thing stopping me from attempting it is my mind telling me "this is too complicated, you can't do it" but this makes me think again! Beautiful work!

I'm a little torn replying to comments like this, because on the one hand, I don't want to be a gatekeeper or scare people away, but on the other hand, it drives me nuts when I see people dismiss 3D modelling as "oh, you can just do that in CAD, then print it out!" 

CAD modelling is like plastic modelling: theoretically it's not hard, but it does take skill to do it well.  Like, plastic modelling is just "glue the parts together, then paint", but we all know it's a lot(!) more nuanced than that.  Similarly, CAD modelling is just 'draw sketches then print them', but the reality is a lot more complicated.  It's a skill.  It's a skill that can be learned, but like any skill, it takes time, patience, and practice to master.  But it comes with the upside that anything you screw up, you can just hit the delete key and start over.  ;D It's not exactly hard, but it can be incredibly frustrating at times - particularly when you KNOW there must be a way to do what you want to do, you just don't know how to do it.

I will say, it really, really helps if you've got experience scratchbuilding, because probably the single hardest part, IMO, is knowing how to break complex shapes down into constituent parts.  Doing the CAD is almost the easy part; thinking about HOW to do the CAD is harder.  And that's partly what I'm trying to show with this thread - it's partly the step-by-step process of designing something but behind that is the thought process of how to break it down into something that can be done step-by-step.
Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: Dirigible-Al on April 07, 2022, 01:24:44 AM
RE, that comment you made about people thinking "Oh you can just do that in CAD then print it out"
Believe me I myself am under no illusion this is easy and like many skills it would need to be mastered at the expense of many mistakes. At some stage in the future I probably will try this but I certainly don't expect to just print out engines and fuselages hours after setting it up.
Alan.
Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: KiwiZac on April 07, 2022, 03:42:14 AM
I will say, it really, really helps if you've got experience scratchbuilding, because probably the single hardest part, IMO, is knowing how to break complex shapes down into constituent parts.  Doing the CAD is almost the easy part; thinking about HOW to do the CAD is harder.  And that's partly what I'm trying to show with this thread - it's partly the step-by-step process of designing something but behind that is the thought process of how to break it down into something that can be done step-by-step.
Now I understand better - having played around with CAD a little I'm under no impressions about what it takes, and that is a very good explanation of how to approach it.
Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: MoFo on April 07, 2022, 04:06:32 AM
Glad someone gets it.  :D

So, another update.  I figure, whilst waiting for my Elegoo Jupiter (hopefully arriving in May?), I might as well scale things down and print it in 1/350.  It's pretty much just a direct scale-down - I made the envelope itself thicker so it would be rigid, but I haven't played with the 'rib tape' dimensions or anything - so it'll be interesting to see what prints and what doesn't, but it *should* be okay.

(https://i.imgur.com/RNuwDjC.jpg)
Step 1 in print prep: add vent holes to the envelope.  I'm using a resin printer, which uses a vat of liquid resin over top of an LCD screen (like a cell phone or tablet screen); a UV light shines from underneath, and the LCD screen masks off everything but the outline of each layer.  A metal build plate comes down from above, the first layer is exposed and sticks to this, then it lifts up to peel that layer of cured resin off the the vat, then lowers back down to expose the next layer, repeating this cure, lift, lower pattern.

This is important because, if you've got a hollow tube, it will create a strong suction force as the build plate raises and lowers.  Like lifting an upturned mug out of a sink full of water.  The way to solve this is to add an air hole at the top (or bottom, depending on your perspective - closest to the build plate) of the part, so that air and resin can freely flow in and out as it raises and lowers.  As an added benefit, these air holes serve as alignment points to help assemble the completed envelope.

(https://i.imgur.com/7MMhvdb.jpg)
Next the envelope is chopped into individual sections.  Again, you can see the vent hole I've cut in the part.

(https://i.imgur.com/W453kXb.jpg)
Smaller items like the tailplanes and gondolas are prepped for print, with pour stub-like supports.  I could add individual supports in the print software (you may have seen the forest of rod-like supports on other 3D printed parts), but felt this would produce better results for these parts.  Then the parts are all saved in a format the 3D print software can read.

(https://i.imgur.com/b9SSgxS.jpg)
And opened in said 3D print software.  This converts the various 3D models into individual layer slices.  In this case, it's basically a whole bunch of JPEG files stacked on top of each other, with a little bit of machine code to tell the printer how long to expose each layer, how fast to raise and lower, etc.  I've doubled up the gondolas and tailplanes because they don't take much resin, and being smaller, they're more prone to failure.  This way, I'm more likely to get a good print.  (now watch the biggest envelope part fail...)

(https://i.imgur.com/Xqdg61f.jpg)
And then the models are converted for printing.  The left side shows the printer's build plate at a particular layer; the right side shows what the LCD will expose for that layer - in this case, layer 145 of 3001 total layers, or some 12 hours total print time.

Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: MoFo on April 09, 2022, 06:26:43 AM
Success! (mostly).

(https://i.imgur.com/s0KQkXw.jpg)

All the parts turned out well.  Had a bit of trouble with the first cm or so of the prints, so they're a little wobbly - not sure why, but it might have been due to mixing resins in the vat (had a bit of older, grey in there, topped it up with a bunch of clear).  Ah well, it's certainly fine for a test run, and bodes well for any future 1/350 prints of the model I might want to do.  (hint, hint :D)

(https://i.imgur.com/ZTWILQS.jpg)
Close up on the tailplanes, showing the nice, subtle ribbing.  It's a little more opaque than I'd like - I used a clear resin to play with the translucency if/when I get around to painting it.

(https://i.imgur.com/CNJHwHy.jpg)
Even the fine door framing rendered well.

(https://i.imgur.com/yfypev9.jpg)
Not as happy with the gondolas.  They're a bit meh, and I'd reprint them if I wanted the model in this scale, but still...  you can see the ribbing on the sides of the gondola, and the hollow windows/interior.  Bit of a step up from Takom's parts.  :D

(https://i.imgur.com/ZUj95Y3.jpg)
Tailplanes rendered nicely.  Sharp, crisp detail.

(https://i.imgur.com/rRsaFoI.jpg)
And SUPER thin trailing edges.  Again, a nice detail improvement over Takom's parts.

(https://i.imgur.com/1wgLMvQ.jpg)
Penultimately, a close-up of the envelope, showing the post-print surface.  I haven't done anything more than cure the print here.  Pretty much ready for a filler-primer, IMO.  Might need the slightest rub down with some 0000 steel wool, or similar.

The coolest thing about resin prints, though, is that you can use the same resin to join parts.  Just a tiny smear of liquid resin, hold the parts in position, then give them a slight blast of UV light and they're cured as solid as the rest of the print.  It's even more instant than CA.  So of course, I put this to use, and a couple of minutes later...

(https://i.imgur.com/G6FeZwu.jpg)
Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: RAGIII on April 09, 2022, 06:35:10 AM
To Me this looks awesome! Congratulations on achieving your goals!
RAGIII
Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: Bughunter on April 09, 2022, 07:19:13 AM
Impressive!
You seems to have the whole process under control, from CAD to setup of the printer ... great skills!

Cheers,
Frank
Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: KiwiZac on April 10, 2022, 05:49:37 AM
Amazing, what a fascinating process - and the quality of the prints look superb!
Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: sobrien on April 11, 2022, 10:12:04 AM
This is looking great. Can't wait to see the 144 scale model.

Did you ever finish your Q class ship?

Sean
Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: GazzaS on April 11, 2022, 06:58:35 PM
That looks bloody awesome!  Very interested in 'hint hint'.
Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: MoFo on April 12, 2022, 03:37:02 AM
To Me this looks awesome! Congratulations on achieving your goals!
RAGIII
Thanks, though to be fair, we're not even half way there yet.

Impressive!
You seems to have the whole process under control, from CAD to setup of the printer ... great skills!

Cheers,
Frank
It's pretty satisfying to be able to make something on a screen, and then hold it in your hand later.  And to be able to design and manufacture your own model kit.

 
Amazing, what a fascinating process - and the quality of the prints look superb!

Yeah, I'm pretty pleased.  One of my other (many) long term projects is a 1/144 Hindenburg (it's 5'8" with a 36" waist, for anyone who's wondering), which I made on a filament printer.  So that's going to entail a TON of filling and sanding...  this one will just be a light rubdown... maybe.  :)  Sooooo much easier.

This is looking great. Can't wait to see the 144 scale model.

Did you ever finish your Q class ship?

Sean

Thanks.  And shhhhhh!  :D  It's like, 90% there.  I'm just a chronic non-finisher.  I really need to get back to it, but rigging the gondolas was going to be less fun than starting the Hindenburg (and sanding that was less fun than starting this one...)

That looks bloody awesome!  Very interested in 'hint hint'.
Thanks.  Guess I need to get on to designing the PE struts, then!
Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: KiwiZac on April 14, 2022, 03:15:05 AM
One of my other (many) long term projects is a 1/144 Hindenburg (it's 5'8" with a 36" waist, for anyone who's wondering), which I made on a filament printer.  So that's going to entail a TON of filling and sanding...  this one will just be a light rubdown... maybe.  :)  Sooooo much easier.
When I was a teen my Dad and I briefly entertained that but as a radio-controlled project of some kind. I say briefly as we had no idea how to proceed and I think it just ended up being a "wouldn't it be nice"! I'd be VERY excited to see that build on the forum! She'd need her own hangar for sure!
Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: MoFo on April 17, 2022, 04:15:45 AM
Small update.  Since the plan (at the moment) is to finish it as a late-career test ship, I needed something cool to dangle underneath.  That means SSW torpedo gliders - one of the first "precision" air to ground munitions.

Scale drawings were imported into Solidworks, then scaled and traced (the measurements are very helpful here):

(https://i.imgur.com/b0kil5Y.jpg)

And the CAD model completed.  Same process as the Zeppelin - various bits were extruded, revolved, cut, shelled and filleted to shape.  I can do a detailed breakdown again, but you probably get the gist:

(https://i.imgur.com/x2pVQj6.jpg)

Designed in 1/144, currently printing in both 1/144 and 1/72.  And for anyone wondering, it's about 50mm/2" long in 1/144.
Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: Dirigible-Al on April 17, 2022, 04:32:53 AM
I am really glad you picked that particular torpedogliter. The one on the cover of the data file looks confusingly like a recreational glider whereas this one looks like a weapon. There was a similar looking monoplane version too although I do not know if it was tested from any airship.
Alan.
Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: RAGIII on April 18, 2022, 05:07:16 AM
That is an interesting weapon that I had No Idea existed. I think I need to do some studying of Airships  ;D
RAGIII
Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: MoFo on April 18, 2022, 05:32:22 AM
You do indeed.  Airships are awesome.  :)
Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: Beto on April 20, 2022, 07:33:18 AM
Very well done torpedo glider. I had only seen it hanging from L35, that also carried an Albatros D.III (late, with D.V type rudder)

(https://warspot-asset.s3.amazonaws.com/articles/pictures/000/002/578/source/1.jpg)
Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: MoFo on April 20, 2022, 11:34:00 AM
Cool pic.  Puts the size of the torpedo glider (and Zeppelin itself) into perspective.
Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: KiwiZac on April 21, 2022, 07:03:11 AM
Cool pic.  Puts the size of the torpedo glider (and Zeppelin itself) into perspective.
That it does - my goodness, what an undertaking!
Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: sobrien on July 20, 2022, 10:32:09 PM
Any progress updates?

Sean
Title: Re: Another airship underway: 1/144 Z XII Scratchbuild.
Post by: MoFo on August 24, 2022, 06:20:07 AM
Your timing is (was?) both impeccable and terrible.

Turns out, the day you posted this was actually new printer day - I finally got the large format resin printer* that I'll be using to produce the Zeppelin.  But, this summer has been crazy busy for me, so I haven't had a chance to do much more than unpack it.  I have *just* run my first calibration print to check out the bed level, so there's finally *kind of* an update, and if nothing else, the update is that there should be some updates in the near-er future, once I get it fully calibrated and run through its paces.


*even that was a big to-do.  I'd originally ordered an Elegoo Jupiter, but it suffered a bunch of delays, and I finally cancelled it when I saw Amazon was listing the newer, slightly bigger Anycubic Max for almost the same price.  Then I decided to wait until Prime day because I was so busy, and in case it was on sale.  Then Elegoo delivered a Jupiter to me anyway.  Then I got a panicked email from someone from Elegoo desperate to get the printer back in case they got fired for accidentally sending it to me.  The UPS guy was angry, because they'd WAY under-listed the weight on the paperwork (it arrived in a wooden crate, so you KNOW it weighs a ton!) and he wasn't equipped to handle it.