forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Topic started by: macsporran on February 07, 2022, 11:02:58 PM
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After completing Roden's Nie 27 and CSM's Nie 17 I was full of enthusiasm for another Nieuport and managed to acquire a Special Hobby Bebe for a good price from a certain auction site.
First impressions are excellent. (Little did I know what was to follow!)
Typical shortish run model with nicely moulded wings with good rib detail, fuselage, tail plane and rudder and a good selection of minor parts in plastic and PE brass. The propellors (2) looked undernourished but I've got plenty of spares from other builds. On first sight I was delighted with the transfer sheet (decals to you - but they are always waterslide transfers, trannies, to me!). Perfect in register, good colours and commendably thin. (Huh - see what happens on application - later!)
I hope Special Hobby re-release this kit - but they have to change a few things - details later.
Sandy
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Onto construction and the interior was put together, detailed and painted ready for closing up.
I use the foiled trays from pharmacy tablets as little mixing dishes - here, for mixing oils with fast-drying medium. (one of the few benefits of getting older - you have tablet trays in ready supply!)
Sandy
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Ha! I had a good chuckle when I saw your pharmacy "mixing tray" Sandy. I use the blister packs my hearing aid batteries are packaged in, age does have a few advantages!
(https://i.imgur.com/AkMISHo.jpg)
Cheers!
Lance
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Nice start!! I know the kit has quirks so I'm going to watch closely but I love the 11!! .....little eye drop bottles...what can I use those for?.....
Steve
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Excellent interior work! I am looking forward to seeing more! I hope Special Hobby re releases this one.
RAGIII
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As a future Ni.11 builder - albeit in 1/72 and 1/48 - I'm excited to follow along with your build Sandy!
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Hello Sandy
I love Nieuports so I would like to follow this too.
Regarding Lance's post on mixing trays I use beer bottle tops. A whole new thread could be started elsewhere on this subject.
Alan.
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Oh, Nieuport weeks! Nice selection Sandy.
On first sight I was delighted with the transfer sheet (decals to you - but they are always waterslide transfers, trannies, to me!). Perfect in register, good colours and commendably thin. (Huh - see what happens on application - later!)
I have build some Special Hobby kits and had no problem with their waterslide transfers. Ok, one Limited kit was equipped with Cartograf printed ones, which is high end, but also the other had no problems in application and looks nice on the models. Even the white print was opaque.
Have fun,
Frank
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I love anything and everything Nieuporty. 8) ;) :D
Watching with interest.
WD
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Hey Sandy , following with interest as well , kinda of hard not to really . :)
Alexis
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Thank you for the encouragement chaps - we'll need it soon, as you will see!
So, basic construction - fuselage closed up, wings and tailplane prep'd, the all major components primed in white, ribs & spars etc drawn in in pencil and initial layer of MRP Linen applied.
Forgive me if I miss out detail pictures but I'm just using a Sony Xperia camera phone and can't get sharp enough pictures. (I bought a ring flash unit for my SLR but haven't been able to get them to communicate as yet!)
Lovely resin and PE engine completed and set aside.
Ribs were masked and Tamiya smoke wafted over raised areas. Tapes then removed and further coats of MRP Linen applied until I was happy with result.
At this stage I started to contemplate mounting wings and realised that although the interplane struts had attachment points indicated on upper and lower wings there were no locating points for cabane struts on either fuselage or centre section.
Hmmm.
S
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The painting of the wings looks gorgeous. Interesting about the lack of moun ting locations for the cabanes. I am sure you will get it sorted 8)
RAGIII
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Much head scratching and test fitting, accompanied by much cursing led to little forward momentum - so the nettle was grasped and all struts - wings and undercarriage - drilled and metal pins fitted.
Holes drilled and carved for forward cabane struts and test fitted with blu-tac to guage correct height for top wing. At the same time the rear cabane struts were test fitted and fettled until a convincing upper wing location was established.
This step was crucially important as the lower wing mounting lugs were vestigial with little indication of where they should fit. Thus the only sensible plan was to mount the upper wing first then hang the lower wings from the V-struts and establish mounting points for them on fuselage.
This is a terrible let-down in a nicely moulded kit and almost caused me to bin the whole thing after futtering about with drills and blu-tac over several evenings. If Special Hobby re-release this kit, they MUST re-engineer cabane locators.
Finally, cabanes were mounted ready for next stage and in the picture you can see blu-tac around the undercarriage struts which also lack any indication where they should be mounted.
Of course I made many mistakes during this build and you'll see I've given the cabanes a wood finish - Doh!
S
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Sandy,
Thanks for posting this build. I'll be following your progress closely.
Kevin
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Your strut mounting ordeal sounds scary but it seems you managed to overcome the difficulty. Again, I have to compliment the painting of wings and fuselage!
RAGIII
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Even temporary, your strut work betrays nothing of the trials you've gone through. I'm excited to see them in place and the build progressing!
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Just one big happy smiley face here !
Super clean work ;)
Alexis
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Very nice. I like the linen shading especially.
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Thanks guys - but you might not like the next bit so much!
This is the point where I started to make some mistakes. Firstly I noticed that most Bebe’s had cabane and undercarriage struts in a metal finish, so my wood streaking had to be repainted.
Then I pored over plans in the datafile and scaled up where the control horns should pass though the elevators and marked up for drilling. I don’t like individual horns as offered on the kit’s PE sheet but prefer a single horn that passes through the aerofoil as on the real thing. Thus I fashioned horns from sheet stock and glued in place. Then something didn’t look right. Doh! I’d measured back from the hinge into the tailplane rather than the elevator and mounted the horns on the fixed surface rather than where they would actuate the control surface.
Much swearing. My fault completely but, again, if Special Hobby had given some indicator points on the elevators I would hopefully not have gone astray.
Horns removed, patched, new holes drilled, new horns installed in correct position.
Time to mount the top wing but first a coat of Winsor & Newton Galeria gloss (My go-to choice for varnish which works perfectly with pretty well all decals I have used. (hmmm….). Windshield, filler caps etc installed and decals applied.
Some trouble with the fuselage chevrons which started to disintegrate as I gently lined them up. Managed to get them all in place but with a few fragments missing. Fortunately I have a huge stock of old Humbrol tins and found that 109 “WWI Blue” matched the blue of the SH decals perfectly, so a little touching up and dry brushing rectified this completely.
Then large roundels under top wing. These just would not settle down and eventually I applied some MicroSol – disaster! Decals started to shrivel up and had to be scraped off in bits. I have the SH Nie16 kit with underwing-only roundels (which will probably be built as a Russian Nie or Dux) so these were pressed into service instead and applied with only gentle heat from a hair drier and appeared to settle fairly well. Top wing roundels applied similarly. The rudder decals just wouldn’t conform to edges so were cropped and painted in.
You can imagine, I was pretty fed up during all this and didn’t take any pictures. (One might have shown the bits flying out the window!)
Anyway, top wing and tailplane finally mounted and a bottle of white Rioja opened!
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Well, it looks great in the pictures. Time to take a step back and take a deep breath.
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If you had not mentioned the mistakes I would not have known there were any, pictures look great. Without wanting to sound unpleasant it is good to hear other people making cock ups, it makes me realise I am not the only one that does them.
Alan
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Again, the result shows no sign of the troubles you had to endure. She looks wonderful. Thank you for sharing your issues - hopefully your experience will help future builders of this kit :)
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Comments appreciated, guys, thanks.
Another day, another frame of mind. Positive thinking. Things are going to go well today.
Time to mount V-struts in upper wing and hang lower wings off them, while locating wing stubs in pre-drilled holes. Out with the blu-tac again!
In first picture struts are held in place with tac while everything is trued up and struts are then CA’d to top wing. I don’t use a jig as I tend to bash it and knock bits off. I favour the old Mk1 eyeball which allows for the whole thing to be moved around to check alignments from all angles. It’s worked fine so far, but who knows for the future as decrepitude approaches?
Second picture, struts have set and lower wings are CA’d in place.
You’ll notice here that I have cut the conrods off the aileron cranks as, once more, there was no indication from Special Hobby as to where the rods would enter the top of fuselage on their way to connecting with control stick. Therefore I attached cranks in wing with a small space at front with a view to drilling and dropping newly-fabricated conrods in place once wing was mounted. (Another improvement to be considered by SH if they decide to reissue this kit.)
She’s starting to look like a Bebe and surely the biggest setbacks are behind us……
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One of my all time favorite aircraft, and you have done it proud! Really beautiful work on the covering, looks just like the real machine, love it.
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Really Looks awesome from My point of View! Beautiful painting and the wings look like you had No Issues at all with strut location!
RAGIII
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Hi Mac,
Yes the aileron control rods are a pain to locate correctly, especially when drilling through the fuselage to to cockpit.
I opened up the upper wing slots then temporarily located the upper wing.
Line of site through the to the fuselage, then marked the fuselage.
Removed the wing then drilled through the fuselage and shaped the holes to an oval.
After the wing is fitted the control rods can be located through the wing slots and down into the cockpit.
Of course that is not an option if you've already fitted the wing,
Mike
(http://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/NIEUPORT-11/cockpit-photo.jpg)
(http://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/NIEUPORT-11/cockpit-photo2.jpg)
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That’s an amazing Nieuport in the making. Just for interest: No black taping on the edges of this very machine?
Andreas
Edit: taping of course, not gaping
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Thanks Andreas.
The only source I have for N642 is the SH colour leaflet which shows dark brown edging strips on the fuselage but none on the wings. Also detailed is N576 (as appended above by Mike "Photobomber" Norris ;D) which does show brown edging on flying surfaces so I am trusting SH's research to have differentiated whether appropriate or not.
S
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Good progress. All the nasties hopefully behind us......, Let's crack on. Metal struts repainted, undercarriage attached. A few more details and we can get on to final varnish coating, a little weathering and rigging.
Sandy
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And..... Disaster.
To recap: After painting, the wings were sprayed with Winsor & Newton Galeria Gloss and having learnt my lesson with MicroSol, no decal softeners were used with upper roundels but gentle heat from a hair dryer was applied - which settled them down beautifully. Then left overnight .
So, let's seal them in with another coat of W&N.
Aaaarg.
As I sprayed the varnish the wing decals began to bubble up in places and lift off the wing. I stopped spraying and studied them, there appeared to be air now trapped under the decals and I used a new scalpel blade to pierce them and hopefully settle back down. As the varnish dried the decals wrinkled and cracked as they set back down. NB This is W&N Galeria diluted with a little water which I have used on countless models - never with any adverse effect on any transfers.
Once the decals and varnish had dried I took a picture and wondered who had cursed this model, or was it made on Friday the 13th. What else can go wrong?
Time for another hard think.
S
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She’s starting to look like a Bebe
That she is, and a captivating example at that!
and surely the biggest setbacks are behind us……
Oh dear...I'm afraid I can't offer any advice beyond step back, take some time to breathe, and ponder a plan of attack. I know you can overcome this. :)
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Don’t give her up… she’s too pretty! :-[
Andreas
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Don’t give her up… she’s too pretty! :-[
Andreas
I agree with Andreas! Just curious did this only happen on the one roundel or did you cease spraying before reaching the other side? I wonder if another bout with the hair dryer would straighten it out again? That being said it looks as though you may need to take the More Painful route and remove the decal/s and either source new roundels or mask and paint them.
Either way Don't give up...although a break Might Help 8)
RAGIII
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Again, thanks fellas, for the encouraging words.
Re the spraying, I popped the model on the turntable in the booth and wafted mist coats of W&N (20% water mix) over the wings. As it dried I wafted some more and at that point I saw the bumps rising in both roundels and immediately stopped, lifting the turntable out of the booth and looking closely to see what was happening. Then I pierced the bubbled areas with scalpel point but without desired result of decal snuggling back down. Since hair dryer had worked previously I very gently tried this and decal did flatten but with bulges, cracks and veins appearing. W&N Galeria is about the most chemically neutral varnish I use and there was no MicroSol/Set/etc anywhere near these markings.
I'd just say, I've been modelling for over 50 years and won a few medals here and there but never had decals behave like this before. I've wrestled the old Blue Rider thick decals into submission, I've succeeded with some of the notorious Roden lozenges - but this sheet from Special Hobby was the worst in my experience - yet they looked so good before application.
I've got an idea how to proceed, but a wee break first methinks!
Cheers
Sandy
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Sandy,
I'm so sorry to see this happening, but I know you'll overcome it. Funny, I was playing a modeling podcast where I learned some new things about decals and Micro-Set/Sol reactions just this last week. Like you, I think this just beats all I've ever seen/heard.
Beautiful build so far. Just step back as others have said and plot your next move(s).
WD
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Oh gee Sandy , are you trying to copy me with disasters ?
That is a really bummer Sandy and feel for you on that happening with the decals . I'm sure once you have a break an few glasses things will be better .
Alexis
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Really annoying when one can't see the origin of the problem! I hope you will find a way forward and if that way includes painting the roundels, I'd be happy to supply you with masks for that!
/Fredrik
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OK. A break from the Nieuport was called for over the weekend and I had a good WW2 movie to watch – Persian Lessons, (about a young guy teaching a Nazi to speak Farsi to save himself from death in an extermination camp – very moving, well worth a watch – superb ending.) I’d had a bottle of single malt Laphroaig for my birthday, so a few drams and a good movie and modelling setbacks disappeared completely.
Back to work. I contemplated removing the crappy decals and masking/painting, but testing showed I’d damage the layered ribs and linen etc underneath necessitating repainting the whole wing in several layers – and probably end up binning the whole thing. What else? Well I also make model cars and use micro-mesh abrasives to gently polish paint jobs before shining up with polish.
I cut small rectangles of various grades of micro-mesh and cut an angled slice off some old paintbrushes, then used white glue to attach the mm’s to these improvised tools. I began to very carefully sand away the veins and bumps on the decal surface – exposing some linen underneath but retaining most of the roundel’s shape. Once I was happy with the flatness of the surface I began to touch in the imperfections with aforesaid Humbrol colours and set aside to dry. Once fully cured I went to work again with the mm sticks and repeated until I was completely happy with the finish. Only then, with great trepidation, did I load W&N varnish back in the Iwata and lightly coat everything ……. with no problems, this time. Phew.
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I'm glad to hear the repair worked out. Should be an awesome build!
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👍👍👍
Let's hope you never have to use your excellent method again. 😃
/Fredrik
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I'd be happy to supply you with masks for that!
/Fredrik
Thank you, Fredrik, for your very kind offer. I think I'll use masks on any future SH builds!
Sandy
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Whew! I'm genuinely relieved to hear you found a fix for this nasty issue Sandy.
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That was a Gutsy Fix IMHO 8) I am Happy to hear it worked well!
RAGIII
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Cheers, chaps.
Now I've decided that this is not going in the bin, I suppose I'd better find a suitable pilote as it is my habit to always display an appropriate figure beside each model. Available 1/32 figures tend to be dominated by LSK or RFC types and I need to look further afield for hommes de l'Armee de l'Air. Miniart and ICM do some nice 1/35 French, Italian and other figures and I've already used MiniArt 35105 French Tank Crew for another Nieuport so I'll use the guy fastening his chin strap for the Bebe. A few splashes of paint and some washes and dry brushing gives us this. He'll do. (You might sense that enthusiasm has waned a little on this model and I can't wait to build something that just falls together out of the box next time!)
Sandy
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Your experience shows that there is always a way out for a modeller. Great that you managed the recovery. Looking forward to see this nice model completed, with a pilot. ;)
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The project overall looks great and how do you predict what the decals will do from one area to the next?!! Did you overspray the N16 roundels under the top wing as well? Is there a vicious decalomaniac that taunts us with SH and Roden sheets? Mask and paint? It looks great and you're so close.
Steve
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Nice looking pilot! It should set the aircraft off nicely.
RAGIII
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Thank you for all the encouragement, mes amis. Finally got this one across the line. Must say I lacked a bit of enthusiasm by the latter stages and just wanted to see it finished. I could spend a bit more time on certain aspects ... but there's a pile of unstarted WNWs staring at me and I could do with a Wingnuts-type 'fix' after my excursions chez Nieuport!
Sandy
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Nice work on a clean build, Sandy. The figure came out well too.
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Bravo, Sandy, your Noop looks tres magnifique!
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Excellent work Sandy! You sure brought that Special Hobby Nieuport to life.
I'll send a build link to Special Hobby to encourage them to do more WW1 subjects.
cheers
Dave Wilson
Gold Coast
Australia
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Sandy, what kind of decal setter you used on this Special Hobby decals?
As I mentioned at the beginning of this thread I had no problems with the decals, but I normally used Micro Set and Sol.
Today I came across another build with a result which looks a bit like yours!
Very interesting is the difference on this picture: same model, same decals, only different solution used: upper one with micro sol, the lower on with solvaset.
(https://www.scalemates.com/albums/img/8/4/0/1174840-64707-48-pristine.jpg)
From this build, see explanation below the picture:
https://www.scalemates.com/profiles/mate.php?id=64707&p=albums&album=79485#23
This can give us a warning about used decal solutions!
Cheers,
Frank
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Interesting link, Frank, thanks, yes it looks similar.
I used micro sol/set on the underside of the upper wing and had exactly that crinkly look so I decided not to use solvents on topside. There I put decals directly on varnished surface and used gentle heat from hair dryer and they settled down beautifully and were left overnight. Next day when I sprayed on the Galeria varnish they started to wrinkle up.
I can only assume I had decals from a poor batch.
😕
S