forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => What's New => Topic started by: Jamo on January 06, 2013, 04:30:48 PM
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It has occurred to me that no one else can post in the section of the forum where our reviews are held, so if you would like to say anything about the 1/32 lozenge side by side comparison, feel free to add to this thread
http://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=1281.0
(http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af234/Jamo_kiwi/Lozenge%20decals%20in%2032nd%20scale/4colourcomparison.jpg)
(http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af234/Jamo_kiwi/Lozenge%20decals%20in%2032nd%20scale/5colourcomparison.jpg)
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I would have to say that the Wood and Wire version looks closest to the lozenge as seen when looking at the Vinatge Aviator aircraft up close
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Wood and wire Lozenge is an excellent representation of lozenge I used it on my D.V . Very thin, they respond well to curves and undulations using heat (hot water on kitchen towel) However its quite difficult to use, fragile and easily damaged, I found a thin clearcoat applied before use helped somewhat however. I used Klear.
One thing to note, like HGW's which I found equally fragile Wood & Wire decals are transparent, an advantage of which is thet grntle preshading would show through. A disadvantage of course is that any imperfections, hairs or airbubbles will too. Best applied over Gloss White.
The ribtapes as supplied are equally fragie and takes patience to apply them, I'm sure if someone knows the best way to clearcoat them before application they would be excellent to use
Keith
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Very useful comparison. Thanks for doing this.
How about adding Pheon to the comparison? AFAIK Rowan only offers the D.V five color, but to my eyes the colors are very good, add the decals are precut for clumsy oafs such as myself.
I must agree that the WNW colors are pretty awful, esp the earlier stuff. I think though they could be salvaged with weathering and shading techniques working towards light.
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The WNW decals behave very well, and usually come with rib tapes too. They do however appear very bright in comparison to the others. They can be dulled down though.
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I thought the WNW lozenge was to bright and garish for the lower wing of my Pfaltz D.IIIa, so I airbrushed Pollyscale Dust over it, which muted it and imparted a faded worn look--much better! I'm going to try the Wood & Wire though. Iy looks so good on the models posted here to which it has been applied.
I also have some Microsculpt linen overlay decals on hand. Can someone who has experience with these please explain the best process for successful application? Thanks.
Regards,
Bob
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The violet in the WNW 5 color seems like the big outlier, much darker and redder than what seems to be accepted.
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I thought the WNW lozenge was to bright and garish for the lower wing of my Pfaltz D.IIIa, so I airbrushed Pollyscale Dust over it, which muted it and imparted a faded worn look--much better! I'm going to try the Wood & Wire though. Iy looks so good on the models posted here to which it has been applied.
I also have some Microsculpt linen overlay decals on hand. Can someone who has experience with these please explain the best process for successful application? Thanks.
Regards,
Bob
Bob,
You'll find my comments on the WNW Albatros DV Build Log and Completed Models Posts I referred you to a few moments back. I liked the effect that the Microsculpt provided and I believe it's worth using, especially over the less then optimum lozenge that comes in the kits. My biggest findings were that it should be applied in smaller sections to make it manageable and I should have been more careful to remove the odd air bubble that got trapped. I didn't use any clear top coat before applying the stuff, just used it as it came and had no difficulties. It does make for a lot of work; my sequence was :
Primer coat on surface......... Gloss clearcoat overspray...........Apply Lozenge Decal...........Overspray...........Apply Microsculpt..........Overspray.................Apply Rib Tapes.............
Seal with clear flat for post shading and after that a top coat of Semi Gloss to seal it all.
Thats a lot of work; thus I want to try the Wood and Wire version on my next Lozenge Finish.
I plan on ordering the Faded version of the Wood and Wire product from Norland and trying it next; I suspect it will be better then the process just used on the Albie however I won't "trash" all the Kit and After Market Lozenge I've accumulated just yet! Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Lance
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Interesting comparison - thank you for taking the time to do this!
For my part I like the colors of the wood and wire but am not a fan of the fabric effect and fading. The WNW colors bother me but I like that the latest kits come with them "templated" to fit the kit. They look decent on the builds I have seen where there has been some shading and such performed.
I have used Dougs and like them - to my eyes they appear much more "blue" overall than any of the others though.
Concerning WNW - I wish they would offer some of their kits in a "weekend" edition similar to what Eduard has done - the kit with only basic markings, no lozenge, no frills - and maybe a $20 to $30 lower price tag. On my first DVII I will likely use none of the six sheets of decals that came with it save the instrument markings and maybe the crosses - seems such a waste!
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James,
Once again my old friend you're the go to guy for all sorts of information. Thank you very much for taking the time to do this excellent comparision for us all. Not being a lozenge color expert I can't address which lozenge set has the most accurate color, but I can state that the Wood and Wire set has quite the eye appeal to my eyes. I very much like the texured effect of them. I also like the WNW Pfalz lozenge as well,perhaps a bit bright but as others have said they can be toned down.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Well no one has asked yet so I guess I will: what happened to Avis? They are way off the color palatte compared to the others.
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. . . and the size of their lozenge is way too large :o
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Just remembered FCM has 4 color lozenge as well... another option, anyway.
http://www.fcm.eti.br/32.html
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Some nice artwork there.
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first i must thank jamo for once again taking his personal time to make our lives easier. next i have to mention db also does a very nice 4 color which i used on my avis fokker ev. perhaps i can try to take a photo and post it here later.it is interesting to read the experieces with the fragility etc of some of the decals. i therefore feel compeled to report on db decals as i have used them quite a bit(4 models) they are made on an inkjet at dougs home. therefore they are very different in many ways. they are sent unsealed and you must apply a clear coat to seal them. it is important to use the right clear coat. the first type i used was acrylic based and when i put the decals in water the ink washed out in spots leaving white specs.. i have found great results from using testors metallizer sealer and grumbacher clear gloss varnish for paintings. after this is done these are the strongest decals ive ever used. they not only dont fracture and crack, they actually stretch and you can tug on them pretty good and they dont tear. i have been quite satisfied with them all along, plus you get 3 times the amount for the price.after they are applied i use the hairdryer method and they comform well to surface detail. that said. i really like the look of the wood and wire with the textured overlay. the fragility does scare me as does the translucent qualities for the fact that they could show imperfections. so i'm still confused. i think i will order some wood and wire to try.perhaps i should also get some of the microsculpt fabric texture decals to use with the db decals which i still like the colors of on both 4 color and 5 color. my problem is mainly that i had hoped to have all my newer builds "match" as far as the brand of decals. all i know is i dont like the wnw decals colors at all. i almost wish they would have left them brite as it would seem easier to airbrush a buff coat and overlay microsculpt linen texture to make them much more acceptable. now i fear this treatment would wash them ouut too much.
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Likewise I like to use the same thing on different models and make any variation in colour myself dependent upon the amount of wear etc. I'm trying to represent. I'll continue to use Microscult in 1/48, but I'll be using Wood & Wire for 1/32.
The Microsculpt "scales" very nicely in 1:32 as well. Seems I'm not the only one taken with the Wood and Wire product, I'm looking forward to trying it.
Cheers,
Lance
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Hello James,
very good work.
Cheers,
Vladimir
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http://www.williammaloney.com/Aviation/BromeCountyMuseum/Fuselage/pages/01LeftFuselage.htm
Some one on this forum posted this link above and I can't find that posting now. I'm posting it because it is germane to this lozenge color subject...it is very interesting to read the photographer complaining about all of the brown varnish that is painted over everything. Again my apologies to the original person posting the url above.
Tim
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I didn't see the photographer make a post complaining about the "brown varnish", but I did see him post about the varnish (or shellac) that had yellowed, and it does.
I believe what many believed to be "Fokker Turquoise" was revealed to actually be a plain-Jane light blue, but was given a turquoise tint or hue due to the yellowed varnish. Would it not be logical to think that whatever this D.VII (or others) are covered in have yellowed or "browned" over the years?
Warren
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I think the poit they were trying to make was that it was clearly not just yellowed dope; it contained a brown pigment.
It looks that way to me too, I noticed the obvious brushmarks over the white rigging table in some of the images, Not just brown but roughly applied in this case. ;D
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Hello Justin,
Please do not be confused. The effect of the fabric is significant only on the decal. It is printed on transparent decal paper. When using a white background, and only gets Lozenge canvas texture. Prior to launch, we have two months testing the structure so that it conformed to scale. The resulting effect - the canvas fairly successful.
Lozenge from HGW are virtually the same, because my colleague Slava Vanous HGW company provided design and preparation. But eventually we joined forces, Slava Vanous and Nordland Models.
Cheers,
Vladimir
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Justin,
all is in instructions or here: http://www.greatwaraviation.com/forum/index.php/topic,5042.0.html we prepare Lozenge rib tapes, but not laser as HGW. It will arch where the lines will be outlined, and everyone will be able to cut. It's very easily by a metal ruler. Laser ports would come unnecessarily expensive. We have them in stock from HGW, but almost no one is buying.
Cheers,
Vladimir
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I have to say that the HGW lozenge decals are the best that I have used. That's not to say that WNW is not good, in fact if it had a faded appearence it would be spot on (in my opinion). The Avis lozenge looks like the inside of my eyelids after a rather large dose of laughing liquid. But the very best lozenge fabric effect I've ever acheived was by using masks. These conformed to all the contours (of course) and were applied using home brewed paint. Although I have to admit that producing the numerous masks required almost sent me over the edge and that I'd be hard pushed to repeat the excercise. Fortunately, Montex have made some now.
Cirrus