forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Topic started by: ETG on January 04, 2013, 11:08:46 AM
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Dear group,
This is the model I am building right now, in a group build on another forum.
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j401/ETG66/Sopwith-001_zpsd4749c3c.jpg)
Since this forum is the best place to get the info I need, I decided to post pictures of the building process along with the one
on the Dutch forum.
I bought this kit (and the other cheap one from Academy, the Nieuport 17) a few years ago and wanted to build it out of the
box. Two weeks ago I decided to participate in a group build and since I found this website and forum, I chose this model and
decided to add many more details and build a far better model than what is possible OOtB !
I really can use lots of advice and help, so please do not be shy and share your constructive comments with me.
These are some of the materials I am going to use, safe the EZ-Line. Why I put it up there, I don't know.
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j401/ETG66/Sopwith-006_zpsd2b7b31e.jpg)
Some Photo Etch parts from Part :
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j401/ETG66/Sopwith-005_zps14c8af39.jpg)
Content of the box :
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j401/ETG66/Sopwith-002_zps0971d6fd.jpg)
Wingnut Wings, eat your heart out :
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j401/ETG66/Sopwith-004_zps39db71a3.jpg)
......yeah, right.....
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j401/ETG66/Sopwith-003_zps88e42e78.jpg)
DIY jig to cut the micro tubes :
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j401/ETG66/Sopwith-007_zps669f4cfc.jpg)
Some sanding and filling (Tipp-Ex...what a great invention !) :
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j401/ETG66/Sopwith-008_zpsc3c65e3a.jpg)
In the meantime I found out, that this model will need a LOT of filling and sanding, to get a decent model.
___________
Erik.
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I'm new to this technique, adding wood structure is not easy to me, but I'm still practicing ! ;-)
But wait 'till you see the second set of practice boards....I'm getting better day by day.
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j401/ETG66/Sopwith-009_zps34d5eddd.jpg)
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j401/ETG66/Sopwith-010_zps56f780ee.jpg)
Too thick, too much paint, but my latest efforts are much better, you'll see.
________________
Erik.
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Hi Erik,
This kit is a great foundation for and excellent model, but it does require quite a bit of work. I built this same kit not long ago with a full build log here - http://www.ww1aircraftmodels.com/page32.html
If you have any questions please feel free to contact me and I will try to help where possible, or ask questions on the forum, I'm sure there are plenty of the members who have built this kit in the past.
Des.
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Des,
I am sorry for misplacing my build log, at the start of the new year |-(
I would be more than pleased to remove every post and start all over again. Maybe you can remove the "Moved" message as well, to keep the page clean.
In the meantime, here is some more wood :
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j401/ETG66/Sopwith-011_zpsf7874a65.jpg)
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j401/ETG66/Sopwith-012_zps095723ce.jpg)
Close. I'm getting there. A bit more practice is needed, although in real life these test pieces look better than in the pictures.
________
Erik
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Hi Erik! I love your build log, and I think it's in the right place (I believe Des was simply offering you the link to his build log on the main webpage just as a helpful guide to your efforts, but I am sure he will let us know :) ). I really appreciate the way you are explaining your process so thoroughly. It helps all of us to learn, and it's something I need to get better at when I do a build log. ;)
Your approach is well thought out, methodical and will result in a beautiful model, I'm sure. I am impressed with your dedication to practicing techniques to master them before the build. I wish I had that much patience! ;) Your wood grain oil technique is yielding excellent results.
Please forgive my ignorance, but can you tell me what is Tipp-Ex is, and how it is used? Thanks.
Keep up the good work! I'll be watching with great interest, as I have a couple of these kits in the stash, and I want to get to one later this year with some very neat Belgian markings from a Spada decal sheet for the Camel. I plan to take advantage of the experiences of both Des and you with this kit.
Regards,
Bob
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Thanks Bob,
I accidentally placed my build log under "Group Builds". It was late at night for me. Didn't notice the error..... I was too anxious to add my own build log.
Tipp-Ex is a correction fluid. Its characteristics makes it ideal for modeling: dries VERY fast, doesn't chip, peel or crack :
http://www.comparestoreprices.co.uk/office-supplies/rapid-tipp-ex-rapid-correction-fluid-[pack-10].asp
It sometimes shows a nasty side-effect: when sanding, sometimes small air bubbles appear. Another layer or filling with paint may be needed. A good characteristic is
that it is very easy to sand or file, holds paint very well and the cap has an application brush attached to it. And a cheap brand works as well as an expensive brand, so for
just pocketmoney you can have one, two or three bottles. Check your local supermarket or office supply store.
(http://www.cutpricewholesaler.com/images/products/large/TIPP0022.jpg)
(http://www.stainsolver.com/artman/uploads/1/whiteout_1.jpg)
I often use it to fill up sink marks and extruder pin marks. The liquid is white. After sanding it can be painted with any type of paint. I always paint the white dot in the same color as the
plastic before I continue airbrushing. That way, if done well, there is no way telling where the Tipp-Ex has been applied. And thanks to the brush, application is super easy !
Don't worry....with this fantastic kit (...cough....) you will see me use Tipp-Ex regularly. |-(
I call it Tipp-Ex, but it is sold under MANY names.
______________
Erik.
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Thanks for that great Tipp, Erik! ::) (Please forgive bad intentional pun). ;D I will have to try the stuff.
Regards,
Bob
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Erik,
Great little "tip" and one I will try.
I have this kit in the stash and will be following your Build Log closely.
Cheers and Welcome aboard,
Lance
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I've got the PART of Poland PE set, so I'm following this one with interest.
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No problems at all Erik, it was a simple matter to move this build from the GB board to here.
The correction fluid is great stuff, I use it quite a lot, the one I use is made by Bic and is called Wite-Out (poor spelling on their part) but as you say, it dries very quick and sand beautifully, I have sprayed both enamels and acrylics over it with no ill reactions.
Thanks for your comprehensive build of this kit, it will help a lot of other modelers who have this same kit in their stash.
Des.
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I am still in the process of sanding all the large parts, pictures will follow soon.
For the last two days I have been making turnbuckles. Lots of hours fiddling with these massive metal objects. It's hard work, but I'll manage...
And after many hours, this is all I have to show for :
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j401/ETG66/Sopwith-013_zps8f699416.jpg)
As you can see, I also have my 0.4 and 0.5 mm drills, now. No, that's not a space ship, that's a tube of Super Glue.
What you don't see in this picture are the failures. And the cut and drilled tubes that go PING... and disappear into the Great Nothing......right after
picking them up with my tweezers. Happened more than a few times. Never bothered to go look for them. I'd better spend my time making a new one.
I am very happy with my new glue. The other tube was a really cheap brand and did not stick half as well as a top quality brand. Gluing these
turnbuckles without making a mess is not easy. My eyes aren't improving with age (46) either. I still have to make a lot more of them, then use the
best looking ones.
Back to my sandpaper. Painting is still a long way away.
_________
Erik.
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Erik,
Excellent project choice my friend. Looking forward to seeing the next update.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Great to see you have mastered the turnbuckles Erik, they are a bit time consuming but well worth the effort. I used to do a search for burnbuckles which shot out of my tweezers but gave up a long time ago, I now just forget about them and make new ones, it's a lot quicker. That's a neat looking super glue tube you are using :)
Des.
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Des wrote that it will take two to three hours of sanding to give the wings a more accurate appearance. Boy....was he right. Then there were the tail wings, too.
Academy made a lot of errors, on this model. Many holes in the wrong place, and they were way too big, too. And what about all those ejector pin marks ?
Bring in the Tipp-Ex and thin plastic sheet....!
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j401/ETG66/Sopwith-016_zps22836143.jpg)
Spending many hours making turnbuckles. What you don't see are the rejects. You drill out a tube and it buckles...You glue an eyelet in place, it bends and the glue dries....great.
Another one in the bin.
I still have to make many more, the best ones will be used for the kit.
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j401/ETG66/Sopwith-017_zps8bb9163b.jpg)
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j401/ETG66/Sopwith-018_zpsfb9331ab.jpg)
What you see here is just the first step. More cleaning, sanding and polishing will be done.
I'm getting closer to assembling the cockpit. Looking at those tiny, fragile parts it just scares the &^%$ out of me.........
___________
Erik.
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Erik,
She's coming along nicely my friend. Keep up the excellent work.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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I have this kit in my stash so I always enjoy following these build logs. One of these days I'll get around to building it, unless of course WnW takes pity on us.
All in all, you're making great strides!
Cheers,
Chris
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I have this kit in my stash so I always enjoy following these build logs....
As do I!
Great progress Erik, I'm following this one closely ;)
Andrew
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I'm glad to see a real model building effort among all the WNW kits. Good luck. :)
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Good luck?
AAAaaarrgghh.....don't you mean BAD luck ? >:(
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j401/ETG66/Sopwith-019_zpsc9c2725f.jpg)
After carefully sanding the cockpit walls smooth, I used the same primer I've always used. I do not use it on every model, but at least it never gave me any problems.
I always use this brand because it never lets me down. Academy must have used a special kind of plastic which is much more sensitive to primer. On other kits it sets beautifully.
Until now. I sprayed the inside and let it dry. When I came back to pick them up, I was shocked to see this damage.... Okay....now what...?
Well....I decided to keep it as it is. A bit more sanding and a thick layer of wood color paint should hide most of the damage. Hopefully the cockpit assembly will hide some of it, too.
As long as this is the only damage, I'll be fine. The rest of the model must be painted perfectly.
Sigh.....first big setback....
Let's hope it stays that way.
________
Erik.
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I'd not worry too much, a bit of sanding and the PART PE internal fuselage should cover it up nicely.
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Erik,
I wonder if the damage you've shown may have been caused by a bit of mold release agent remaining on the plastic? Or maybe your primer wasn't mixed properly. Very hard to tell from a photo. One thing for certain though,I've no doubt you'll be able to make things right. Keep up your excellent work my friend.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Boy.....am I disappointed at the parts from Part......
Trying to assemble the cockpit the construction just kept falling apart. Some extra reinforcement was needed in the form of
thin plastic strips from Evergreen.
When I tried to fit the assembly into the fuselage, I got a ver nasty surprise: it was way too big.
Great...now what? Lot's of grinding, I guess. Luckily I have a small electric drill and very hard dental drills. Even at this stage I
can recommend other modelers not to use these parts to make the large cockpit assembly. All other parts look fine, but scratch
building the cockpit frame is highly recommended.
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j401/ETG66/Sopwith-020_zps5a438dce.jpg)
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j401/ETG66/Sopwith-021_zps48f73103.jpg)
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j401/ETG66/Sopwith-022_zps83a92574.jpg)
_______
Erik
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In order to make the cockpit assembly fit, I had to remove ALL protruding parts on the inside. Let's hope I won't regret that
decision, later in the build. And because the rear part is too wide, the fuselage halves still do not close, despite the removal of all
internal protrusions.
I wanted to have the cockpit assembly finished, by now, but trying to fit it inside, as well as trying to keep the extremely fragile
assembly in one piece, has taken up a lot of time. There was little progress.
Sigh..........
I won't give up, though...! |-)
_____________
Erik.
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Hello Eric:
You may just want to cut the part PE parts down the middle both upper and lower, and then put the fuselage halves together. You won't ruin any of the sidewall integrity, but you will at least be able to make it fit. It won't be seen.
I hate it when that stuff happens. Like you say, they probably never built the model or tested their fitment on the actual kit.
Perseverance will pay off.
Best and good luck
Mark.
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I've used the PART SE.5a set - I used super glue & kicker to hold it together.
I then had to thin the fuselage quite a bit to make it fit - in fact, it was almost transparent by the end!
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Part - A wolf in sheeps clothing many a times. It just looks so darned impressive when you look at it on the fret!!!!
Steve
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I wonder if the Part parts were sized off the Hobbycraft revised kit, that might make sense of the awful fit?
Good to see you soldiering on despite awful setbacks though ;)
Keith
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I am not a lover of PE and only use it when absolutely necessary, I prefer to make all my own bits and pieces. Your Camel is coming together very nicely, the wing and tail sanding makes a huge difference to the overall appearance. The reaction you had with the primer seems very unusual, but it looks like it is a problem that can be easily fixed, very little of the cockpit interior is visible once it is all buttoned up. Looking forward to seeing what you do next.
Des.
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Its almost like they work off of scale drawings as opposed to kit parts - or they take outside dimensions and produce the parts to those measurements - weird. RB I remember your build and how "exciting" the fuselage wall thickness got to!!
Steve
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Just as Des I prefer using plastic instead of PE whenever possible. Especially so when building up the interior framework. I do use PE for the smallest details I can't make myself. Somewhere here is my Camel project thread showing the scratch built airframe which to me looks better than the fold up PE frame.
Keep up the excellent work Eric. I've got a feeling she'll be a real gem when completed. Looking forward to the next update my friend.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Here's another update. I participated in a yearly scale model show, that's why there weren't any updates, recently. This year my theme was "old model kits". I entered
kits which molds were 40 years old or older.
It was a tribute to my uncle. Like I said in my introduction mail, he was an avid scale modeler who build many hundreds of kits for well over 35 years. He often gave
me a kit. He got me addicted ! ;-) I have many old, original Aurora, Frog and Revell kits, first issue, original first color. I consider it a proud posession, even though
he painted the kits in his own way. 100% accuracy was not his thing. Still, he build them neatly, really good paint jobs and no glue smears !
Okay....the Camel. Nasty animal. Giving me nothing but trouble. I decided to cut up the PE cockpit and sand the inside of the fuselage. Still, it fits tightly.
It doesn't look good, now, but once this PE cockpit has been completed and built into the fuselage, little or nothing of the damage can be seen, once the model is finished.
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j401/ETG66/Sopwith-023_zps74276201.jpg)
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j401/ETG66/Sopwith-024_zps9eb81608.jpg)
__________
Erik.
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Sorry guys, for not posting more text and pictures..............
The reason is, that I am getting quite frustrated with the fragile PE and styrene parts. Whenever I try to add another
part, another part comes loose or even falls off !! One step forward, two steps back and I'm getting fed up with the
model.
The PE cockpit assembly just won't stay in one piece. Using the original cockpit is out of the question by now, since
I cut and sanded away all protruding parts on the inside and thinned down the fuselage walls.
Yes, I did clean the metals parts, I even clean them just before gluing a new part, but even a quality brand superglue
does not do the job.
I am getting worried about all of the remaining PE parts..... Since for some reason they just don't react well to CA glue
and even worse...the new cockpit is build up out of mostly metal PE parts.
Suggestions, anyone ??
(To top it all off....I got a new job, more hours and better pay, but now I only have the weekends to work on my models.)
_________
Erik.
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Have you tried epoxy? I use it for most detail parts that require any kind of fiddling around to position. If you use minuscule amounts it is not sloppy looking. And it is strong.
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my suggestion at this point is to use the pe parts as a guide to build an evergreen framing. you can glue the pe parts to the outside of the scratch build frame side walls afterwards if you want to use the pe crisscross rigging. at least it wont keep coming apart. dont give up now theres always a solution.
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Erik,
I believe Scott's on to something here my friend.
This is what I did.
(http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t342/GJouette/SPAD%20and%20Camel/IMG_0956.jpg) (http://s514.photobucket.com/user/GJouette/media/SPAD%20and%20Camel/IMG_0956.jpg.html)
(http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t342/GJouette/SPAD%20and%20Camel/IMG_0957002.jpg) (http://s514.photobucket.com/user/GJouette/media/SPAD%20and%20Camel/IMG_0957002.jpg.html)
(http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t342/GJouette/SPAD%20and%20Camel/IMG_1019.jpg) (http://s514.photobucket.com/user/GJouette/media/SPAD%20and%20Camel/IMG_1019.jpg.html)
(http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t342/GJouette/SPAD%20and%20Camel/IMG_1048.jpg) (http://s514.photobucket.com/user/GJouette/media/SPAD%20and%20Camel/IMG_1048.jpg.html)
Sorry to have highjacked your thread a bit.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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This is what I made to fit my Academy Sopwith Camel, as most of the inside is not seen once the fuselage is closed up I didn't make the entire fuselage framework, just what would be seen. Using Evergreen strips I ended up with a very strong assembly, and being made to measure it fitted perfectly.
Like Gregory, I'm sorry to jump in on your topic but it might give you a few ideas.
Des.
(http://www.ww1aircraftmodels.com/camel%20x%2022.jpg)
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Thank you all for the great help !
Making the cockpit from scratch was a sort of last resort, anyway. Guess I'm at that point, now. Still, Part offers a lot of nice PE parts
that I still want - and going - to use.
Those Evergreen strips aren't much stronger than those PE parts but at least I can GLUE them properly with styrene glue ! |-)
Gregory and Des, you guys have too much faith in me.... I am just an ordinary man, born on planet Earth. Your out of this world
skills are a great inspiration, though. I'll try not to let you down.
I also want to apologize in advance to all WW1 airplane fans, for not making a super accurate, historically correct cockpit. Even the
pictures of the real airplanes seam to disagree. Therefor, I decided just to pick one that looks nice and copy it. For me, that's good
enough ! ;-)
____________
Erik.
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Hello Erik:
Don't beat yourself up too bad. Once you put the kit together, almost all of the cockpit disappears. I just finished one, with minimal cockpit detailing, and you would be hard pressed to see any of it, save for the instrument panel. It isn't the greatest kit, but considering what Academy had to work with, it is a good foundation and with a little work turns out pretty good. I will be posting some build pics and the finished product shortly.
Good Luck
Mark
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I can't get over how you are making a "silk purse from a sow's ear", Eric.
There is no way I would even attempt what you are doing...and slaying
the dragon, bit by bit. You have my admiration. I'm looking forward to
the rest of the build. Thanks for sharing with us.
Best regards,
Ernie