forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Topic started by: Bughunter on May 16, 2021, 08:28:21 PM
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Bristol Scout C
Some of you asked already what's next - I have some shelf queens but as promised in Richies Scout scratch build I will join with a Bristol Scout. As usual in 1/48.
I have both Gavia kits in my stash, the normal (allows 2 markings) and the Professional Edition, which is like the Eduard Profipack, allows 5 markings, add a nice PE set and two resin cowlings.
Another accessories will be a Part PE set, Gaspatch turnbuckles and as usual a resin engine made by Small Stuff.
Since I like to have the Union Jack in my cabinet I think I will build this one:
(http://www.cbrnp.com/profiles/quarter1/scout/scout-1250.jpg)
Source: http://www.cbrnp.com/profiles/quarter1/scout.htm
Other references are the Windsock Datafile 44 ...
(https://www.scalemates.com/books/img/8/6/4/103864-10000-10-pristine.jpg)
and of course the great photo collection by Richie on Flickr!
That marking brings up the first question. Many different rotary engine types were used on the scouts, at least the 80 hp types Le Rhone 9C, Gnome 7 Lambda and Clerget.
I have the Small Stuff sets for the Le Rhone 9C and Gnome 7 Lambda, but I think the 1250 was using a Gnome 7 Lambda, according to the picture on page 9 in WD44. Are there any dissenting voices or have I overlooked something?
I hope, that the diameter of the Lambda is a bit less to get it under the cowling ???
The progress will be not that fast, as I have to sort out important private things.
I hope that some of you will follow this little group build!
Cheers,
Frank
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Looking forward to your build Frank :)
Alexis
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Excellent Frank. This should get Me ready for when Copper State releases theirs in 1/32nd. I am looking forward to your Magic!
RAGIII
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Definitely following this one Frank, looking forward to some more Bughunter magic.
Richie
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Looking forward to your build Frank , Between this build and Richies it might be just what I need to finish my in the stash .
Alexis
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I cannot comment on the engine Frank as I do not have any sources to consult, but in any event you will probably be making your own cowling from metal so I would guess that ultimately the size of the engine will be academic: your new cowling will fit!
Stephen.
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Ah.... The next miracle-build. I will sit down and watch with interest.
Bye, Manni
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I will certainly follow this one.
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You’re a machine Frank!
Lovely subject.
Guy
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Hmmm, I love the Bristol Scout! bring it on, Frank, ease the waiting until the CSM 1/32 release! I am keen on seeing your magical soldering iron at work!
Andreas
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Wow, what a great interest ;)
Welcome Alexis, Rick, Richie, Stephen, Manni, Ferry, Guy and Andreas!
I was not really able to work on this project due to private things, only some small preparations are done.
At least I was able to do some research.
That marking brings up the first question. Many different rotary engine types were used on the scouts, at least the 80 hp types Le Rhone 9C, Gnome 7 Lambda and Clerget.
I have the Small Stuff sets for the Le Rhone 9C and Gnome 7 Lambda, but I think the 1250 was using a Gnome 7 Lambda, according to the picture on page 9 in WD44.
The engine thing seems to be mode complex than I thought.
There is a clear statement in the Profile Publication 139 "The Bristol Scouts C & D"
"The standard engine was the 80 h.p. Gnome rotary and was fitted to 1243-1266, .... when they left the factory." And later another interesing sentence: "The Admirality regarded the Gnome as more reliable then the Le Rhone and therefore demanded that R.N.A.S Bristols must have Gnome engines in view of there liability to have to fly over water".
Ok, as I want to build the 1250 (or the more colorful 1246? ) both are in this range.
I have the Gnome Lamba 80 h.p. from Small Stuff, it is a 7-cylinder rotary (the kit engine has also 7).
What confuses me is the Windsock Datafile 44 on top of page 37.
"Power: One 80-hp Gnome Lamda, 80-hp Le Rhone 9C, .... the Clerget 7Z and the Le Rhone 7B had seven cylinders; all others had nine."
Is this a mistake or does anybody know a 80-hp Gnome Lamda with 9 cylinder?
Also the doubled Lamda-Lamda had 14.
I started to build the Gnome for checking. The valve rocker are missing, but it looks promising on top of the plan.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1f4RAoEMOlGHPYWfHY6lub_9sU40tkxdo)
Okay on the plan, but not on the kit cowling! >:(
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1I1bshbzmzJGqimg7-jT3RXVlchSLJpfo)
The cowling on the plan shows the missing space! I checked the printed ruler on the plan, it is in correct size.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1pxxTuUqmIOp-QOTaQsTCFIMYPl6a-X9N)
So I painted the engine to be able to add the small parts to check the final size. Ignition wires and washing is missing.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1aGzP1AXjYIQKle5n0DGsCy4kxq3B0ss4)
This will probably be model building again instead of gluing the kit together, as Ken put it so nicely.
Cheers,
Frank
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What a lovely engine Frank! And what a great subject - one of my favorites so I will follow with rapt attention! Regards, Marc.
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Great to see this underway with your usual beautiful engine. I'm looking forward to seeing how you solve the cowling problem, I think there might be a bit of lathe action in your future! 😀
I really should know about the engine but sadly I'm at the age where things get fotlrgetten as soon as I learn them.
Great to see you back at the bench, it's just not been the same without you!
Richie
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It's a shame that 3/4 of this will not be seen hidden under the cowl , either way beautiful work Frank :)
Alexis
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It's hard to believe that engine is 1/48 scale...what a beautiful job you've done on it, Frank. The cowling issue would make a lot of modellers just start a new project ;). I'm anxious to see how this progresses.
Cheers,
Gary
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Never heard of a Gnome Lambda 80hp with 9 cylinders, or a Clerget with 7 cylinders, but I haven't seen everything yet.
I presume you will be making a proper sized cowling to put over that engine?
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Love your engine, Frank -
Excellent project
Regards
Dave
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Thank you my friends!
And what a great subject - one of my favorites so I will follow with rapt attention!
Oh yes, I was really happy after able to catch this old Gavia kit. This company is out of business and I don't know what happen with the molds. At least the Pfalz E.I was released again by Special Hobby.
I'm looking forward to seeing how you solve the cowling problem, I think there might be a bit of lathe action in your future! 😀
The lathe would help with the cowling, but it looks like the fuselage is also not wide enough. This looks like a 1/72 model! Let's see what I can do about this.
It's a shame that 3/4 of this will not be seen hidden under the cowl , either way beautiful work Frank :)
Alexis, at least it shows more of the engine then the Deperdussin Monocoque :D
The cowling issue would make a lot of modellers just start a new project ;)
Gary you made my day! That's why there are sooo many started kits and sooo less finished models! ;D ;D ;D
I hope to be able to fix the issues.
Never heard of a Gnome Lambda 80hp with 9 cylinders, or a Clerget with 7 cylinders, but I haven't seen everything yet.
I think now, the Gnome Lambda was only forgotten in the list of 7-cylinder engines.
The Clerget 7Z has its own Wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clerget_7Z
According to german page 347 was build and mostly used in the Avro 504
Love your engine, Frank -
Thanks Dave, luckily this type is available from Small Stuff.
Cheers,
Frank
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Good to see that you are making progress on this Frank. The engine is as usual stunning (as Small Stuff is, but you invariably gild lilies). As has already been commented, this is likely to be a genuine modelling project rather than a glue-together-the-parts exercise.
Stephen.
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Sounds like a lot of work, Frank. But I am sure you‘ll tackle this kit. The engine looks great as usual!
Andreas
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Your engine is superb Frank! I am sure your cowling will "Turn" out to be just as beautiful!
RAGIII
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Thank you Stephen, Andreas and Rick!
Airscrew
To work with wood is always relaxing for me, so I tried to made an airscrew.
If you look carefully below the kit prop you may see some wood.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1bGrRu8NYLjPJcp7gEAR8p9Slo3mu0zQZ)
Side by side view:
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=12y2gXPMNXdjx7AoVnAVVXXWlfhOkU2hl)
The back side.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1yqaAhwxuMvdcnkrT9siw2_sBj3AT9xU7)
The side view (the picture could be better).
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=14DGjEpIy24bwdO-Beypr30vwDazxFEom)
The prop boss fits into the recess. The contrast of the veneers will be reduced with clear paints.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1G0VWkROQxkiptFtJ0edHknvJIu3V-lUV)
I also worked from time to time on the wings and cut out all ailerons and repinned them.
The wing was a bit on the short side, but do not show the space between outer parts and middle wing. So I made fine cuts and repinned with brass (not yet glued).
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1eRCzGdDuzleGlStSetySaBumUndopV4b)
That looks much more original (the space was 37mm, so nearly one 1mm in 1/48) and the upper wing is longer now and fits to the plan.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=10GNKdhPlw4oG9TgEpbiOg_PCO6xgVit9)
Only some small steps ;)
Cheers,
Frank
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Nice work on the prop Frank :)
Alexis
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Hi Frank,
I missed this thread and just caught up with it. I think the engine, and the wings look amazing. The prop with the recessed boss you made is simply beautiful! I'm sure you will sort out the problem with the tight cowling too.
I will keep a close watch on your build from now on.
Willem
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Hi Frank!
What a beautiful build you have going on! It's a treat to tag along with your reports.
Small steps are also steps AND I believe your (and all other good builders') small steps are crucial for your amazing results.
Keep up the good work, one small step at the time. 😃
/Fredrik
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Thanks Alexis, Willem and Fredrik! Your comments are highly appreciated!
I am sure your cowling will "Turn" out to be just as beautiful!
Rick, let's say it with the The Byrds https://youtu.be/W4ga_M5Zdn4?t=15
Cowling
Turn, turn, turn, ...
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1peIxZV_2E8x9eXhgv82ch_l0XM_O8Ng3)
The new cowling is big enough for the engine.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1FF0f8sUEogNvTf1-v8JkqNRmNzsUHzwA)
For a used look I used some polishing wool.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=15bRHvp1PkNDhNN9lLVFAic_j5Mn0tD3W)
The wall is 0.33mm thick. After the cowling was finished, I noticed a slightly different diameters in the different views of the WD plans. I accidentally used the biggest diameter. Now it's bigger then needed for the engine, and this will make the mounting to the fuselage more problematic.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1JgAI5DWl8hFIdRV9xHiLi9F0cOXYMrC0)
Not sure if I mill a slot into the cowling as shown here. This will be nice and show more of the engine. There were so many different cowlings and field modifications.
(http://www.cbrnp.com/profiles/quarter1/scout/scout-1250.jpg)
Cheers,
Frank
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Cowl looks good Frank . If you do decided to add the slots in the cowl with all the field changes it would be hard to prove you wrong .
Alexis
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Wings, prop, and Cowling are all Superb as we expect from your builds Frank!
RAGIII
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Beautiful prop Frank, really looks the part. Love that cowling too, much more realistic than the bottle top I used for mine! :)
Richie
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As I commented above, this is turning into a semi-scratch build, and the quality is moving ever upwards. The cowling is super Frank and as Alexis has commented, if you do cut the slot who is to argue that it is not correct?
Stephen.
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Beautiful in every aspect, Frank. I have missed this one up to now. Incredible work on the propeller. I love your selfmade cowling.
Mindblowing as usual.
Bye Manni
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Great work happening Frank! Your scratchbuilding skills are amazing! That cowling is just so perfect... hope it fits OK in the end! Regards, Marc
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Outstanding work as usual.
There is so much that I can learn here :)
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Frank
Love your work - always a real treat
That engine is a gem - Is it by Small Stuff or did you scratch those rockers yourself ?
That turned cowling is another minor work of art
I hope you will not mind the following ...
For those modellers out there who don't have the luxury of having 3-D printer and/ or who are "Unimat challenged" and don't have access to a mini/ micro lathe, you can still produce a revised replacement cowling of the correct internal and external diameter "old school" by either vac-forming, or plunge-molding The following deals with plunge molding which does not require any special equipment.
You could attempt a plunge mold of the complete cowl but you may well find yourself very frustrated by a series of failures. You need a cowling that's about 1 cm (6/10ths of an inch ) deep with a fairly consistent wall thickness and that's hard to do by plunge molding without breaking through the curved section as you push the male part through The other problem is winding up with a part that too thin and flimsy - Ask any modeller who's experienced with vac kits about this one if you don't believe me !
Plunge molding involves no more than obtaining or creating a tube and then gluing a plunge-molded curved section to one end. You need to bare in mind we are looking at internal and external diameters of the cowling we are trying to create
If you cannot find a pre-made polystyrene tube, don't despair - you can still create a tube by
- forming a tube with the required wall thickness from a single sheet of plastic ( getting a tube that's round and stays that way will be tricky), or
- finding some round material with an external diameter matching the internal diameter of the cowl, or you could just sand down a piece of wooden dowel in a drill - You use this as a mandrel and then roll thin plastic sheet/ card/ Evergreen around it - Glue it down as you roll it. A set of calipers will help you get the right external diameter. go slightly oversize the external diameter to allow for sanding down
If you use thin liquid glue, be very sparing and make sure you allow the tube to dry for at least 3 days. You have to let the tube stabilise or it may deform when you take it off the mandrel/ core. Alternatively, use CA
Sand the resulting tube to a smooth external surface - you should be able to use a drill on a slow speed to do this
Next step is the curved section of the cowl
Plunge-molding is simple. There are heaps of "how to's" on the net - It's a matter of shaping a piece of basswood or balsa ( You can do this by fixing the wood you are using as the male part of a mold in a drill and sanding it down until you get the right shape You can also shape one end of the mandrel you made if you used a wooden dowel !! ), you then heat some sheet plastic (about 1.5 mm sheet would do ) and and then push/ plunge the male mold through a round "plate" of the correct external diameter.
After trimming the curved part (I'd sand it down on a flat surface to ensure a true mating surface that's square with the face of your tube), glue the new curved section to tube (let it dry properly) and viola ! It sounds a lot harder then it is.
Regards
DavidL
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Thank you very much to all of you!
That engine is a gem - Is it by Small Stuff or did you scratch those rockers yourself ?
The engine is build out of the boxbag. Only Small Stuff parts are used.
Here you can see nice pictures of the parts and a link to a detailed description of the recommended build process:
https://www.smallstuffmodels.com/p/products.html#!/1-48-Gnome-7-Lambda-Oberursel-U-0-80-hp-Engine/p/57124350/category=13154092
Most impressive are the rods. I can't measure them without destroying because they are also made of resin. May be 0.15mm thick. Works nicely on the engine, because they are a bit flexible, so you do not destroy parts with a more stable wire.
I still do not understand, how such filigree parts are cast from resin without bubbles in that impressive quality!
I hope you will not mind the following ...
David, thank you for your detailed description!
Since I own a lathe and like to work on it, I try to made parts on it, if possible.
I used aluminum, because I don't have to paint it then. It is may be my way, but I like to display parts on my models by real material. I think for example, that real brass looks much more like brass then any paint called "Brass" that I know.
It may be do not respect a scale effect of the surface, but I like the impression given by real materials.
Sorry, I was not able to work on it, so no update.
Cheers,
Frank
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Outstanding work Frank, as usual. May I ask what kind of chisel you use to make the outside of the cowling?