forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com

WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Topic started by: Garage21 on January 23, 2019, 09:49:20 AM

Title: 1:16 Sopwith Camel by Model Airways
Post by: Garage21 on January 23, 2019, 09:49:20 AM
My intent is to use the wooden pieces in the kit but replace all the pot metal castings with scratch-built pieces in brass, aluminum and copper.  Also will be building a 1:8 scale Clerget engine to stand next to the plane.

This is my first non-classic car model so I'm pretty excited.

Title: Re: 1:16 Sopwith Camel by Model Airways
Post by: aliluke on January 27, 2019, 03:08:05 PM
Hi Garage 21
I look forward to this big scale build and your ambitions for it. Keep the posts coming.

Cheers
Alistair
Title: Re: 1:16 Sopwith Camel by Model Airways
Post by: Juan on January 27, 2019, 11:20:51 PM
Looking forward to your progress on both kits.  Both nice and big!
Title: Re: 1:16 Sopwith Camel by Model Airways
Post by: Garage21 on January 28, 2019, 02:14:01 AM
Before I start building the Camel, I've got to fabricate the pieces and parts that I'm replacing form the original kit.  I figured I'd start with the turnbuckles since I need to fabricate over 100 of these things.  It took me a few tries, but I feel like I'm on the right track now.

[img width= height=]https://www.bellateq.com/g21photos/camel/012323[/img]
Title: Re: 1:16 Sopwith Camel by Model Airways
Post by: lone modeller on January 28, 2019, 04:50:06 AM
Those turnbuckles look super - if the rest of the build is to this standard you will have a museum quality model at the end.

Stephen.
Title: Re: 1:16 Sopwith Camel by Model Airways
Post by: Garage21 on January 28, 2019, 05:52:57 AM
Thank you Aliluke.  All of the metal bits that came in the kit are going to be scratch built from brass, aluminum and copper.  The engine will be scratch built and a second, 1:8 scale engine, will be built to display next to the plane.

If this goes like the rest of my projects, I'm guessing 8 months to a year until completion.

Stay tuned.

Andy.
Title: Re: 1:16 Sopwith Camel by Model Airways
Post by: acewwi on January 28, 2019, 06:07:32 AM
Before I start building the Camel, I've got to fabricate the pieces and parts that I'm replacing form the original kit.  I figured I'd start with the turnbuckles since I need to fabricate over 100 of these things.  It took me a few tries, but I feel like I'm on the right track now.

[img width= height=]https://www.bellateq.com/g21photos/camel/012323[/img]

Hi Andy,
why you do not try this material http://www.gaspatchmodels.com/products/resin-turnbuckles-type-c-1-16.html (http://www.gaspatchmodels.com/products/resin-turnbuckles-type-c-1-16.html)

Cheers
Spyros
Title: Re: 1:16 Sopwith Camel by Model Airways
Post by: Garage21 on January 28, 2019, 07:07:35 AM
Hi Spyros - I had thought about using those, but the actual units on the actual plane would have been made out of metal so I wanted to go with metal.  I know you can paint resin to look like metal, but the brass turnbuckles with the copper safety wire looks fantastic and you can't really get the proper look with paint on resin.

Ultimately, I wanted to get the look of actual metal against the wooden wings as I think that will be striking.

Andy.
Title: Re: 1:16 Sopwith Camel by Model Airways
Post by: BillB on January 28, 2019, 09:41:26 AM
Do you plan to leave the metal natural, paint it, or use a chemical blackener?

Chemically blackened with the safety wire added afterwards would really be eye catching.

- BillB
Title: Re: 1:16 Sopwith Camel by Model Airways
Post by: Garage21 on January 28, 2019, 10:36:48 AM
I haven't really decided yet Bill.  I definitely will not be painting the turnbuckles.  More than likely they'll be blackened with a light acid dip and then the copper safety wire will be left shiny.

What do you recommend?
Title: Re: 1:16 Sopwith Camel by Model Airways
Post by: BillB on January 28, 2019, 11:17:28 AM
Micro-Mark has a wide variety of chemical treatments for metals, and Birchwood Casey has several, including an aluminum blackener.

For years I've used A-West Blacken-It, available from Walthers (though out of stock at the moment), and industrial supply stores, like McMaster-Carr, have carried blackening solutions for years, but the last I looked all they had was essentially black paint.  Some of the chemicals formerly used were a bit too toxic for today's consumer protection advocates.

A little Googling will no doubt uncover other sources.

BillB
Title: Re: 1:16 Sopwith Camel by Model Airways
Post by: RAGIII on January 28, 2019, 12:58:34 PM
Amazing work on those buckles! They should certainly look authentic!!
RAGIII
Title: Re: 1:16 Sopwith Camel by Model Airways
Post by: aliluke on January 28, 2019, 04:14:04 PM
Turnbuckles look great. Just some thoughts...
The turnbuckle will only be at one end of the line the other end is fixed - a 100 seems a lot - you might be double counting?
Snipes have no visible turnbuckles at all - there is good discussion here about this under the rigging section.
See photo below of a turnbuckle on a Pup (I think). Very small and bright steel in colour.
If you are blackening, Birchwood Casey, as recommended, is the best I've ever used - and I tried many - but that was for ship models.

(https://i.imgur.com/eudt5m1.jpg)

Cheers
Alistair
Title: Re: 1:16 Sopwith Camel by Model Airways
Post by: Garage21 on January 28, 2019, 11:09:41 PM
Aliluke - I was including the clevises in the count with the turnbuckles since those have to be fabricated also.

The clevises will be much easier to fabricate though.
Title: Re: 1:16 Sopwith Camel by Model Airways
Post by: Garage21 on February 02, 2019, 08:14:21 AM
So I went through all the plans and confirmed that I was going to need about 100 of the double-eye turnbuckles.  I got them all fabricated (finally).  I need to sand, shape and polish as well as drill out the center hole and run the safety wire, but they're "done enough" for now.

12 hours over 10 days is the answer to how long these took.

*** COULD SOMEONE PLEASE REMIND ME HOW TO EMBED A PICTURE IN THESE POSTS.  I DID IT ONCE AND NOW I FORGOT HOW I DID IT."

Thanks,

G21
Title: Re: 1:16 Sopwith Camel by Model Airways
Post by: RickyGene on February 07, 2019, 06:11:11 AM
Looking forward to your thread of this build.  I have this same kit along w/some goodies from ShapeWays and Gas Patch.  But before I can build the Camel I am just starting a build of the AL Fokker Dr1.  So I will watch and enjoy your build along the way.
Rick 8)
Title: Re: 1:16 Sopwith Camel by Model Airways
Post by: gbrivio on February 07, 2019, 04:21:14 PM
Fine turnbuckle, if you make all these in metal it's probably worth to leave them in natural colour.
Ciao
Giuseppe
Title: Re: 1:16 Sopwith Camel by Model Airways
Post by: Bughunter on February 08, 2019, 02:57:57 AM
Your turnbuckle looks totally nice, don't get me wrong, they are beautifully manufactured.
But, as aliluke wrote, the Camel don't use them.

Turnbuckles are for ropes, but the Sopwith aircrafts, the later ones, uses flatened streamlined steel bars called "RAF aerodynamic wires" as most british aircrafts of that time.
WNW tells in 1/32 scale to use 0,1x0,3mm, so in your scale the bars should be around 0,2x0,6mm.

There are tables for every aircraft, here a example:
(https://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af234/Jamo_kiwi/Wingnuts%20RNAS%20Sopwith%20Pup/Rigging.jpg)

An the end the steel bars are round with thread and mounted into terminals, which looks like this:
(http://ipmsvagabonds.com/page2/page36/files/flying-wire-terminals.jpg)

I replicated those in 1/48 (in your scale and the turnbuckles you show, it should be a easy task for you), see my Bristol Fighter thread:
https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=9378

In 1/32 you can find a product here, may be it helps to get the idea, the review and links are also nice:
http://www.radubstore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_68&products_id=328

So, a lot of information, but I wanted to avoid to spend so much effort into a wrong solution.

Cheers,
Frank
Title: Re: 1:16 Sopwith Camel by Model Airways
Post by: RickyGene on February 08, 2019, 03:30:05 AM
Not too hi-jack the thread......but I for one did not know Brit's did not use turnbuckles.  Much info to gleen from here and those who have the knowledge.
Thanks
Rick 8)
Title: Re: 1:16 Sopwith Camel by Model Airways
Post by: FokkerFodder on February 08, 2019, 09:13:08 AM
Hi - lovely turnbuckles. I am no expert but I think you would still be using these for the internal rigging if not the wings (as per frank’s point on the streamline wire).
Cheers
Matt