Author Topic: The Gordon Bennett Air Race 1911 Part 2: Bleriot XXIII  (Read 3509 times)

Offline KiwiZac

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Re: The Gordon Bennett Air Race 1911 Part 2: Bleriot XXIII
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2023, 07:50:24 AM »
Every time I remember my idea of scratchbuilding a model of my local Bleriot replica things like the undercarriage put me off. To see it done in 1/72 gives me hope that 1/48 isn't a bad idea!
Zac in NZ

Offline Rookie

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Re: The Gordon Bennett Air Race 1911 Part 2: Bleriot XXIII
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2023, 10:51:14 PM »
I agree with Richie.

Great research on the dimensions of the wings. The second set looks much more proportionally right.

Willem

Offline lone modeller

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Re: The Gordon Bennett Air Race 1911 Part 2: Bleriot XXIII
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2023, 01:30:00 AM »
Evening All,

Thanks Rick, Richie, Zac and Willem for your kind comments. They are much appreciated for reasons which will become clear when you read on. Support from people like you really does help when things seem to be destined to go perpetually wrong.

Zac: be careful when reading this because the under carriage on the Bleriot XXIII was not the same as the earlier XI: the whole design seems to have been inherently weak and Bleriot continually modified it, seemingly without success as all of this series of machines seem to have suffered from weaknesses in this department.

When I made the second pair of wings with the wider chord, I cut them too short! So I had to make a third set of wings, this time with the correct span and fix them to the fuselage....but after I had painted the models!!! Grrrrrr. Fortunately the wings are small and therefore did not take long to make but I had to remove the old pairs first and then fix the new ones into place. After that I had to paint the new wings and touch up the joints so that they do not show. After all that, when I was ready to put the markings on I saw that one of the wings on Hamel's model had drooped, necessitating its removal and replacement! As I write this I am waiting to repaint and clean up that joint... It never seems to end!

I painted the numbers on a sheet of white paper, copied and reduced them for printing and varnished them with artist's varnish to seal them. I originally used Humbrol matt enamel to seal them on the models and discovered that the varnish turned yellow after a couple of days! The old transfers were duly removed with a scalpel and new ones printed and fixed in place, this time with acrylic varnish.

In contrast with the above self-inflicted disasters making the wheels and undercarriage turned out to be simple. The tyres were 30 thou rod wound around a paintbrush handle and dipped into bioling water for a few seconds. The centres are Eduard spoked wheels. I used pieces of wire from a paper clip for the axle:



The front of the airframe formed the basic structure for the undercarriage on these machines - I had already made most of that from strip and rod:



Hamel's machine had two extra rods: I do not know what purpose they served but they are very clear in the photos:



The brackets which joined the axles to the lower part of the chassis at the front were made from 20 thou rod bent into shape. Pieces of 20 thou rod were used to make the arms which were attached to the oleos at the front of the machine:



In spite of the mild complexity of this structure, it was remarkably quick and simple to make, and it is fairly strong and looks as it is supposed to do!

Holes had been drilled in the underside of the fuselage to take the pylon and supports which carried the control cable to the wings. The pylons and supports were made from 30 thou and 20 thou rod respectively. On the original aircraft the rear undercarriage was made from wood which had been steamed and bent into curves. I represented this by using 30 thou rod and bending it to shape. First one complete length was glued into place:



When that had set hard I took the second length and cut it into two parts so that they could be fixed on each side:



Both the undercarriage and pylons have been painted and I can now start rigging the underside of the models before I add the rudders and upper pylons to the top surfaces. That at least is the plan which assumes that I do not make any more blunders that will need correcting!

Thanks for looking.

Stephen.

Offline KiwiZac

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Re: The Gordon Bennett Air Race 1911 Part 2: Bleriot XXIII
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2023, 04:53:32 PM »
Zac: be careful when reading this because the under carriage on the Bleriot XXIII was not the same as the earlier XI: the whole design seems to have been inherently weak and Bleriot continually modified it, seemingly without success as all of this series of machines seem to have suffered from weaknesses in this department.
Rest assured: I meant that seeing a similar design scratchbuilt gives me hope and inspiration for my hypothetical XI, rather than following your example to the letter. As one of my aircraft engineering tutors is fond of saying: if that makes sense?  ;)
Zac in NZ

Offline RichieW

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Re: The Gordon Bennett Air Race 1911 Part 2: Bleriot XXIII
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2023, 10:54:40 PM »
I totally understand your frustrations with the wings but your admirable resilience will win the day and the finished model will be all the more rewarding for the problems you have had to overcome. I am on my third BE2 top wing and one thing I have learned about scratch building from you is that patience and determination are of the utmost importance.

 The undercarriage is great and looks very complicated. How funny that it has been the most straightforward part of the build so far!


Richie

Online RAGIII

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Re: The Gordon Bennett Air Race 1911 Part 2: Bleriot XXIII
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2023, 09:25:54 AM »
Looking fantastic Stephen. Your building techniques are always inspiring! I find the solutions that were used on the real aircraft are often amazing in their own right. Looking gorgeous!
RAGIII
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"Don't slop it on" Lynda Geisler

Offline Tim Mixon

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Re: The Gordon Bennett Air Race 1911 Part 2: Bleriot XXIII
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2023, 12:39:49 AM »
Very intriguing build Stephen. I wonder how the plane handled at speed with such small tail surfaces. Thanks for sharing your scratch builds. Someday I’ll get around to trying one myself. 

Offline DaveB

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Re: The Gordon Bennett Air Race 1911 Part 2: Bleriot XXIII
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2023, 04:29:19 AM »
Great work and progress, Steve -

What small wingspan and tail plane though!

Regards

Dave
As we say in fencing, what's the point!

Offline lone modeller

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Re: The Gordon Bennett Air Race 1911 Part 2: Bleriot XXIII
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2023, 12:32:02 AM »
Evening All,

Many thanks to you all for the generous supportive comments - they are much appreciated.

Evening All

I am pleased to be able to report that further blunders have been avoided and that I managed to rig the undersides of both models with rolled 40 SWG copper wire before I added the pylons on the top of the fuselage. After those were painted I rigged the upper surfaces and added the rudders and propellors, so the models are now complete.

I must point out that some of the rigging is guesswork as I have no plans of these machines and only a limited number of photographs, not all of which are as clear as I would have liked them to be. I do have a set of plans for the Bleriot XXI from which the XXIII seems to have been derived, but the rigging diagram is a little vague too, so what I have put on to the models is part known and part guessed.

I will post more photographs of the completed models in the relevant section shortly.



Thanks for looking.

Stephen.

Offline kensar

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Re: The Gordon Bennett Air Race 1911 Part 2: Bleriot XXIII
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2023, 09:38:58 PM »
They look really good in the photo, Stephen.  Looking forward to seeing more pictures.

Offline RichieW

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Re: The Gordon Bennett Air Race 1911 Part 2: Bleriot XXIII
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2023, 11:09:06 PM »
Well they look lovely Stephen, a testament to not only your great skill but to your persistence too!

Richie

Offline lone modeller

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Re: The Gordon Bennett Air Race 1911 Part 2: Bleriot XXIII
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2023, 01:59:43 AM »
Many thanks  for the kind comments Ken and Richie.

Stephen.

Offline lone modeller

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Re: The Gordon Bennett Air Race 1911 Part 2: Bleriot XXIII
« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2024, 08:07:06 AM »
Evening All,

When I made the models of this type several people commented on the very small wings, and this led me to examine more carefully my sources. This post is about the results of that examination and the corrections that I have made.

I had to build the Bleriot XXIII's entirely from photographs and published data, and I was misled by the latter. The source that I used was based on a French publication which had been translated into English, and I think that the translator made a simple error by stating that when the wings of the two machines were modified prior to the GB race, the span was reduced to approximately 17 feet. In fact the individual wing lengths were reduced to approximately 17 feet, giving an overall span of approximately 37 feet, allowing 3 feet for the fuselage. It was only after I had completed the project and handed it over that the penny dropped for me and I realised my error. I have been making two new models since with the correct span and completed them recently and handed them to Eastchurch Aviation museum earlier today.

The new models look like this:











Keen-eyed observers will notice that I have not just corrected the wingspan but I have also added the guards on the leading edges of the wings behind the engines, which were added to protect the pilots from oil and exhaust gases. These were visible on a photograph of Hamel's machine which I only saw for the first time shortly before I handed the display to the museum.

I will update the entry on the Gordon Bennett Air Race in completed models section shortly.

Thanks for looking.

Stephen.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2024, 04:04:26 AM by lone modeller »

Offline NigelR

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Re: The Gordon Bennett Air Race 1911 Part 2: Bleriot XXIII
« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2024, 06:38:30 PM »
Great work, and definitely worth doing.

Offline lone modeller

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Re: The Gordon Bennett Air Race 1911 Part 2: Bleriot XXIII
« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2024, 04:08:48 AM »
Thanks Nigel.