forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
The WW1 modelers' reference library => Markings and Camouflage => Topic started by: Berman on August 23, 2015, 04:18:44 AM
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The Germans and Austro Hungarians were certainly seduced by their spiffy sophisticated symmetrical six sided stealthy sections for surreptitious surveillance and skirmishing. However, was this any more effective than speedier slapdash camouflage applied as splotched, squirted, squiggled, sprayed, scrambled, spotted, splattered, striped, serpentined, sponged, splashed, smeared, scrawled, scumbled, serrated, stippled, sprinkled, staggered, swirled, stencilled, spiraled, segmented, splintered, scattered, stained, streaked, shaded, spluttered, sprawled, shadowed, spattered, slopped, swished, scribbled, or speckled?
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That's some awesome, all-encompassing alliteration, but I can't answer your question. ;)
George
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I have no idea. ::)
However when someone models one of those aircraft and it's done correctly, it don't get much nicer than that for me. 8)
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Well every one will get shot down sooner or later!
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No.
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It was all done to torture modellers in future times.
S.
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No.
Agreed!
Best wishes
Nigel
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NO.
The US Navy in early WW1 tried some highly complex camouflage schemes on its ships - notably the Herzog and Mackay low-visibility schemes. These were comprised of small strips or flecks of many colours (including primaries) - more or less equaivalent to 'lozenge' - at a distance the effect was of monotone grey anyway and of no advantage over other methods. Also bloody time-consuming to paint a whole ship.
These are not to be confused with genuine disruptive, concealment or confusion (dazzle) patterns (with larger swathes of colour than the Herzog and Mackay schemes ) that did have some value.
Cheers,
GrahamB
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The dutch took it one step further!
HNLMS Abraham Crijnssen
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a209/James_Machin/wwwopac.ashx_zpsltt5unlv.jpg) (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/James_Machin/media/wwwopac.ashx_zpsltt5unlv.jpg.html)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a209/James_Machin/island-disguise_full_zpsnjzkeytv.jpg) (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/James_Machin/media/island-disguise_full_zpsnjzkeytv.jpg.html)
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Now, that's some serious camo!
Cheers,
Bud
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The story is incredible - they used it to avoid detection from the IJN and made it back to Australia, the other two ships in the group didn't.
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I personally never did get aircraft camo, to me whether its painted green or covered in lozenge,painted hex,or two tone/three tone green/brown and or mauve i wouldnt think it did much as an aircraft would seem to appear as a dark aircraft shaped flying object flying thru the air. lozenge with its purples,blues,pinks etc seems to mimic sunset colors but dont seeit doing much to conceal an aircraft in flight. now some of the world war 2 green/brown blotchy stuff may have help hide a craft on the ground under camo net and foliage.
camo on land craft as tanks and snipers is far more effective.
that said i am glad the germans experimented with it cuz its fun to model and makes for pretty aircraft imho
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Maybe I could add, that the German "Tarnstoff" (the Germans never ever used the term "lozenge"...) was not invented by any military specialist. It was sketched at an university of art by young artists being influenced by expressionism...
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Re: Was painted hexagon camouflage worth the effort?
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"I personally never did get aircraft camo, to me whether its painted green or covered in lozenge,painted hex,or two tone/three tone green/brown and or mauve i wouldnt think it did much as an aircraft would seem to appear as a dark aircraft shaped flying object flying thru the air."
I can offer an opinion based on years of flying Air Combat Training against most of the "Free World's" inventory of Combat Aircraft. I immensely enjoy the comment here of "Camo is for sissies" but in my experience it does work well in most environments and situations. It is never 100% however it does help, whether the misty grey air to air schemes, the brown and greens of the air to ground attack aircraft when viewed from above, or the multi grey versions over water. If it only makes visual acquisition a degree more difficult, and incurs a delay in same, it's helped. An old adage in air fighting is "he who hesitates is lost". The comment on helping to conceal an aircraft on the ground is particularly valid, a "target" blending into it's surroundings is a very effective deterrent to visual acquisition in the rush of a visual attack.
Just the recalled opinions of an old "has been" but Camo is effective, and the drab PC10's and Lozenge schemes of WWI probably were just as effective in their day in the right circumstances. I'm also the first to endorse ALB 1234's comment as well, "it's fun to model and makes for pretty aircraft!"
Cheers,
Lance
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I personally never did get aircraft camo, to me whether its painted green or covered in lozenge,painted hex,or two tone/three tone green/brown and or mauve i wouldnt think it did much as an aircraft would seem to appear as a dark aircraft shaped flying object flying thru the air. lozenge with its purples,blues,pinks etc seems to mimic sunset colors but dont seeit doing much to conceal an aircraft in flight. now some of the world war 2 green/brown blotchy stuff may have help hide a craft on the ground under camo net and foliage.
camo on land craft as tanks and snipers is far more effective.
that said i am glad the germans experimented with it cuz its fun to model and makes for pretty aircraft imho
That is true from the ground, but much different in the air. Aircraft viewed from above or that are below the horizon can be very difficult to see especially in low light situations such as dawn or dusk. We have three airplanes. Our yellow and black Tayorcraft sticks out in the daylight but from certain angles at dusk when the yellow is not as reflective becomes very hard to see. Our brown/tan Piper
Pacer disappears when below the horizon from about quarter to half mile distance. Our other Taylorcraft is silver and highly reflective. Easy on high visibility days disappears completely on low vis cloudy days or worse, hazy days. Paint can also make it hard to determine a direction of an aircraft viewed in flight especially again if viewed below the horizon and the paint gives no clues to what is the front or back of the airplane. Keep in mind these situations may only last for a few seconds, but that is a long time in combat.
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"As Lance mentioned, a split second, much less a few seconds in combat can be the difference between life and death."
You are so correct Warren. Post merge close in air fighting demands uncompromised visual contact, "lose sight, lose fight"! That's a neat story about the D.VII, I can see it happening easily.
Cheers,
Lance
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Interesting question and discussions; I just did a search on Youtube for Fokker DVII to see if I could find any videos of these aircraft with the loz print taken from overhead. All I came up with were videos shot from the ground so a dark aircraft again the sky - not much help. I then remembered the two FE2bs (or d's) in flight in New Zealand
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaArnJbtw_4
As I watched the video I thought the two would have been more hard to see if they were painted in wide camouflage bands (German green and mauve) vs the PC10 over all.
Charlie
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It was all done to torture modellers in future times.
S.
Looks like it!
Glenn
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Interesting question and discussions; I just did a search on Youtube for Fokker DVII to see if I could find any videos of these aircraft with the loz print taken from overhead. All I came up with were videos shot from the ground so a dark aircraft again the sky - not much help. I then remembered the two FE2bs (or d's) in flight in New Zealand
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaArnJbtw_4
As I watched the video I thought the two would have been more hard to see if they were painted in wide camouflage bands (German green and mauve) vs the PC10 over all.
Charlie
It's a bit hard to spot, but that's me crouching in the front of the green Fee. It was a very good day!