forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Topic started by: Mike Norris on February 22, 2023, 08:09:54 PM
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Hi all,
As the build of the Halberstadt Cl.II is coming to a close, I've started to prepare for the next model.
This hopefully will be Hannover Cl.II, Serial No.690/18 of FEA 8 (Fliegerersatz Abteilung 8), based at Graudenz (now Grudziadz in Poland) in late 1918.
I've changed my original scheme to this one as the decals I applied did not go well.
Basically the lozenge decal I used were clear backed, which was not the problem.
The problem was adding the rib and edging tapes to the wings etc.
The cut clear backed lozenge decal, when applied, showed the underlying decal, making the rib tapes way to dark and muted.
I did try white backed lozenge decal, but they were way too bright.
Basically I should have used the white backed lozenge decal to start with.
So, rather than spend more buying replacement decal, I decided to change the scheme to the above.
Also, I have a commission build of the CSM Bristol Scout waiting to be started, so time is pressing,
Mike
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/title.jpg)
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/aircraft.jpg)
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Your production line clearly has no pause button Mike!
But I guess the more you build, the more confidence you have in your skills and techniques.
Be careful though…..by my calculations you will run out of kits by mid 2024 :)
David
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Your production line clearly has no pause button Mike!
But I guess the more you build, the more confidence you have in your skills and techniques.
Be careful though…..by my calculations you will run out of kits by mid 2024 :)
David
Hi David,
I doubt that.
Over 40 1:32nd scale kits in the stash and more on the way.
At my current build rate I make it around 2031, if I live that long ;D
Mike
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Phew…..good to hear.
Well at least we can all enjoy your inspirational builds for a while longer!
David
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A lovely subject Mike! Looking forward to your ususal great skills turning this into a magic model! Regards, Marc.
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Very nice choice and it fits your Halberstadt perfectly. Also the paint sheme is one if my favorites, I just like those transitional crosses. You have a sharp eye, I wouldn’t have realized that the fuselage camouflage was sprayed on, or do more sources exist next to this photo?
Andreas
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Very nice choice and it fits your Halberstadt perfectly. Also the paint sheme is one if my favorites, I just like those transitional crosses. You have a sharp eye, I wouldn’t have realized that the fuselage camouflage was sprayed on, or do more sources exist next to this photo?
Andreas
Hi Andreas,
There are not many photographs of this type of lozenge so it's difficult to be positive.
I've only found two so far that show this lozenge scheme not over sprayed, neither of good quality.
Here's the other photograph (different aircraft).
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/aircraft1.jpg)
Many of the aircraft were over sprayed with, for instance, transparent dark Prussian Blue glaze to tone down the lozenge colours.
This aircraft had 1.6mm thick plywood covering over the fuselage.
The large lozenge scheme was applied to the fuselage, both sides of the upper wing centre section and both sides of the lower tailplane.
Also the linen lozenge on both sides of the ailerons was applied at 90 degrees to that on the upper wing.
The 'Wingnut Wings' instruction manual suggests that the large lozenge was, on this aircraft, spray painted rather than hard edged brush painted.
Also the 'Windsock' data file No.23 notes that these lozenges were 'sometimes soft edged', suggesting spray rather than brush painted.
Of course it's all subject to interpretation and most models I've seen of this colour scheme have hard edged lozenge.
It will be difficult to soft edge lozenge by airbrushing, but we'll see.
If not then it'll be the hard edge brush painted type,
Mike
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The 'Wingnut Wings' instruction manual suggests that the large lozenge was, on this aircraft, spray painted rather than hard edged brush painted.
Also the 'Windsock' data file No.23 notes that these lozenges were 'sometimes soft edged', suggesting spray rather than brush painted.
Mike
Thanks a lot for clarifying this for me, Mike!
Andreas
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Hi all,
I've started on the Argos As.III engine.
I'm using the kit supplied alternative cylinder block, as this does not have the unrealistic solid moulded valve push rods.
These will be added later using Nickel-Silver tube.
The exit ports of both exhaust pipes have been drilled out as these were also solid moulded.
Finally, I've added 0.8 mm diameter tube to the rear ends of the ignition lead support tubes.
These will allow for the insertion of ignition leads from the magnetos later in the build.
Mike
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/eng3.jpg)
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/eng4.jpg)
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YES!YES! Been waiting for you to start this one for ages! Awesome Mike, thank you! Regards, Pete in RI
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I think it looks odd and bulky, but I like it!
Willem
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I’ve got this kit now Mike in my ever growing WW’s stash..
I’ll be super interested to see how you tackle the big lozenge..
Guy
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Great looking machine that I never acquired. All well, I can watch yours take shape.
Steve
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Hi all,
The basic engine is done.
The radiator pipes and exhausts will be fitted later in the build,
Mike
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/eng8.jpg)
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/eng9.jpg)
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Exquisite work on the engine Mike, it looks terrific!
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Hi all,
The fuselage is close to being closed up now.
I've added:
The rudder and elevator control cables, using 0.12 mm diameter mono-filament and 0.5 mm diameter blackened Brass tube.
The wireless cable from the from the hand reel in the observers cockpit and through the cockpit floor.
The control rod from the clutch control lever (wireless set generator - engine driven), from 0.4 mm diameter Nickel-Silver tube.
I've also fitted the cockpit panel for the pilots machine gun ammunition magazine in the half open position, not that you can see much of the ammunition inside the magazine.
The engine and two radiator pipes are only dry fitted.
Those, along with the pilots 'Spandau' machine gun, will be fitted after the fuselage has been painted.
An engine throttle control will also be fitted at the same stage.
Mike
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/con6.jpg)
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/con7.jpg)
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Hi all,
Both weapons for the Hannover completed.
The pilots 'Spandau' is a combination of the kit supplied parts and the ‘Master’ Spandau LMG 08/15 barrel and jacket (AM-32-023).
The observers 'Parabellum' is the ‘Gaspatch’ Parabellum 14/17 resin machine gun,
Mike
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/guns4.jpg)
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Beautiful interior work. Very nice job with the wood. Very realistic looking weapons as well.
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Amazing update. It's really coming together beautifully!
Steve
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Great job on your Hannover so far, Mike. Excellent research, too, as you’ve done before on your projects. Looking forward to see how this one plays out.
Cheers,
Gary
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Mind blown again Mike another fantastic build :)
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Hi all,
The original scheme for this aircraft has been changed - see the first post in this thread,
Mike
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Hi all,
An update on the Hannover build.
The fuselage has been closed up.
Fuselage, wings and tailplanes have had their panels and fittings etc painted.
Pilots Spandau machine gun fitted as well as the nose cowl and some of the engine access panels (others will be left off).
Still some work to be done before weathering then preparing and applying the decals.
Mike
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/con10.jpg)
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/con11.jpg)
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/con12.jpg)
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Hi all,
A representation of the carburettor control fitted.
As there's no reference for the Argus As.III engine, I've based it on similar engines of the period,
Mike
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/con13.jpg)
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/con14.jpg)
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Hi all,
Assembly has moved forwards and the 'Aviattic' Linen Weave effect decals applied where required.
The relevant kit decals have been applied also.
Now it's onto applying the weather and pre-rigging before final assembly,
Mike
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/dec1.jpg)
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/dec2.jpg)
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/dec3.jpg)
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/dec4.jpg)
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Great progress!
Andreas
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Hi all,
Weathering applied using 'Flory Models' Dark Dirt fine clay wash.
Now it's onto pre-rigging,
Mike
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/flory1.jpg)
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/W1.jpg)
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/W2.jpg)
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/W3.jpg)
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/W4.jpg)
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/W5.jpg)
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The Flory wash has worked out very well Mike. It's looking excellent and near the end which must mean it's nearly Bristol Scout time! :)
Richie
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Wonderful results so far Mike, and very near the finish line. This will be another masterpiece for the collection.
Out of interest……you mentioned that you changed scheme due to problems with the lozenge decals. Originally I read that the fuselage lozenges would be a challenge (hard edges v soft edges). Did you get as far as trying any techniques…..on test pieces or whatever? Or might that be something for the future?
David
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The Flory wash has worked out very well Mike. It's looking excellent and near the end which must mean it's nearly Bristol Scout time! :)
Richie
Hi Richie,
Yes Bristol Scout next,
Mike
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Wonderful results so far Mike, and very near the finish line. This will be another masterpiece for the collection.
Out of interest……you mentioned that you changed scheme due to problems with the lozenge decals. Originally I read that the fuselage lozenges would be a challenge (hard edges v soft edges). Did you get as far as trying any techniques…..on test pieces or whatever? Or might that be something for the future?
David
Hi David,
It wasn't so much as a problem with the decals themselves.
It was that I'd applied 'clear' backed decals to the wings etc.
That meant I couldn't add the required rib taps as 'clear' shows up dark and 'white' backed shows up way too bright.
So I chose to change the scheme rather than go to the expense of more decals of the correct type.
As for the fuselage lozenge.
I was going to try either airbrushing them using masks or using the 1:24th scale decals from 'Aviattic'.
As to whether the lozenge was in fact soft edged I think is debatable.
Why soft edge the fuselage main lozenge but leave the fuselage rear lozenge sharp edged, as is the wing and other lozenge and the upper wing centre section?
I think it's possible the apparent soft edge is the result of light colour over spray over the fuselage.
Over spraying of the fuselage of Hannover Cl.II aircraft was fairly common, similar to that of the Halberstadt Cl.II aircraft.
I didn't get to test and experiment though, but it will be something for the future,
Mike
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Ok thanks Mike.
David
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Hi all,
Landing gear fitted.
Wireless aerial and generator assembled and painted.
Swivel ring and mountings assembled and painted for the observers Parabellum machine gun.
Additional grab handle added to the swivel ring.
Now onto the pre-rigging,
Mike
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/con18.jpg)
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/con19.jpg)
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/con20.jpg)
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/con21.jpg)
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Masterful building skills! I wasn’t a fan of this scheme until you convinced me otherwise. Really nice work. Thank you for the detailed pictures of the radiator and gun ring. I need to do some work on the Airfix gun ring.
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Fantastic work, as always! Clean, crisp and with lots of different details to look at.
/Fredrik
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Nice update.
Steve
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Excellent work Mike. The texture painting on the gun ring is stunning. Hope you don't mind me asking, how did you achieve that effect?
Richie
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Excellent work Mike. The texture painting on the gun ring is stunning. Hope you don't mind me asking, how did you achieve that effect?
Richie
Hi Richie,
I airbrush primed a grey primer, such as ‘AK Interactive’ Grey (AK-758) or similar‘.
Then airbrush with ‘Tamiya’ Dark Yellow (XF60) or similar.
Brush ‘Windsor & Newton’ Griffin Alkyd Vandyke Brown oil paint.
Wait a few minutes then with a brush lightly dampened with White Spirit, gently brush off the oil paint to achieve the desired wood effect,
This oil paint dries very quickly and can be clear coated with acrylic or lacquers.
Mike
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Thanks Mike, it looks slightly different to your usual method, I guess you were just after a different look. It has certainly worked fantastically well. I must try that Windsor and Newton paint.
Richie
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Thanks Mike, it looks slightly different to your usual method, I guess you were just after a different look. It has certainly worked fantastically well. I must try that Windsor and Newton paint.
Richie
Hi Richie,
It's the same method I use when applying wood effect by brush painting.
The good thing about those oil paints is they don't need to have linseed oil leached out before use, like standard oil paints.
They dry within a very short time, again unlike standard oil paint.
The colour range is just a good.
I tend to use Raw Sienna, Raw Umber and Van dyke Brown.
When brushing off the paint, the brush is dipped in White Spirit then brushed off on paper towel, as too wet a brush will just lift the paint off,
Mike
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Hi all,
The upper wing has fitted.
Pre-rigged with resin anchor points, blackened 0.5 mm diameter Brass tube and 0.12 mm mono-filament.
Rudder control cables also rigged with 'Proper Plane' turnbuckles, 0.08 mm diameter mono-filament and blackened 0.4 mm diameter Brass tube.
Now it's onto final rigging,
Mike
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/prig6.jpg)
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Looking good Mike, sorry to plague you with questions but my results with brass blackener have been a bit mixed to say the least. I remove the lacquer coating and lightly sand but find the coating often gets removed with handling. Is there a trick I'm missing?
Richie
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Looking good Mike, sorry to plague you with questions but my results with brass blackener have been a bit mixed to say the least. I remove the lacquer coating and lightly sand but find the coating often gets removed with handling. Is there a trick I'm missing?
Richie
Hi Richie,
I don't remove or scuff Brass or Nickel-Silver tubing (Albion Alloy's).
I just immerse the tubing into 'Blacken-It' solution and leave it until I see the colour change to dark or black.
Then remove the tubing and dry it on kitchen roll.
If you leave it in for too long it can cause the tubes to stick together so I roll them when drying to separate them.
I got my bottle a long time ago so not sure if it's still available, as it's hard to find in the UK.
That said, I've not tried other solutions that are available for modelers.
https://www.walthers.com/blacken-it-weathering-solution-for-metal-4oz-118ml (https://www.walthers.com/blacken-it-weathering-solution-for-metal-4oz-118ml)
Mike
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Thanks Mike, that's a different brand from the one I have. It's a bit hit and miss, lovely when it works though. I'll see if there's something with a similar chemical make up to the one you linked.
Richie
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Fantastic look with those linen decals!
On the subject of blackening tubes - I don't do anything to my Albion tubes either and I basically use Mike's method but with AK 174 Brass Photoetching Burnishing. Haven't tried it on anything but brass though...
/Fredrik
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Mike, I am sorry, I do not know how I missed this build. It is simply spectacular. All around!
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Hi all,
Final rigging is complete.
I tried this time using resin Anchor Points, but won't bother in the future.
Although they will take tension in the rigging line, they break away very easily if only slightly knocked.
I'll continue to use the metal versions from 'Gaspatch', even though most unfortunately have blocked 'eye' ends, which effectively renders them unusable.
Resin turnbuckles, being in the line, are OK as the chance of knocking them is remote.
I've used 1:32nd and 1:48th scale One Ended version turnbuckles (metal) from 'Gaspatch' on this build.
There's still more bits to fit and figures to paint, but I'm getting there,
Mike
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/rigfin1.jpg)
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/rigfin2.jpg)
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/rigfin3.jpg)
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Interesting about the resin turnbuckles. I bought some to try, but haven’t used them yet. Considering your advice, I’ll stick to the metal ones and use resin in “safe” places.
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Very dramatic! Looks great. What did you use to glue in the resin turnbuckles?
Steve
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Very dramatic! Looks great. What did you use to glue in the resin turnbuckles?
Steve
Hi Steve,
It has to be CA adhesive (superglue) as styrene cement ('Tamiya' etc) has no effect on resin,
Mike
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These Hannovers are simply cool. You proove it with your build, Mike. And thanks for sharing your experiences with resin turnbuckles and anchor points. I have recently bought some resin turnbuckles from Lukgraph and am keen on trying them out.
Andreas
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Hi all,
The engine radiator pipes and front exhaust have been fitted.
Also the observers 'Parabellum' weapon, windscreen, aerial weight, flare and grenades racks and wireless generator (with added retaining straps and conduit).
I still have the propeller to fit and the figure to complete.
Also I need to fit tie bars between the flying and landing wires, which are nor supplied in the kit,
Mike
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/engdone.jpg)
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/gendone.jpg)
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/paradone.jpg)
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/rack1.jpg)
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/rack2.jpg)
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Thanks Mike. I was wondering if 2 part 5 minute epoxy glue would be better or the CA flex glue that's out there would work better. Either of those may give a little instead of snapping immediately. I use a flex black crazy glue that isn't "instant." I can see where I put it and still have time to fiddle.
Steve
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Hi all,
The tie bars between the flying and landing wires on both sides of the aircraft have been added.
Made from 0.6 mm diameter plastic rod.
The actual tie bars had the wires passing through them.
However, this is not possible to do on the model, as the the bars are too thin to drill.
Also, the holes would need to be accurately position along the bars and the wires passed through them during final rigging.
If the holes are not positioned accurately the wires would be deflected and not be straight.
Therefore I had no option but to locate the bars onto the wires and secure then in position using thin CA adhesive,
Mike
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/tiebardone.jpg)
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Thanks Mike. I was wondering if 2 part 5 minute epoxy glue would be better or the CA flex glue that's out there would work better. Either of those may give a little instead of snapping immediately. I use a flex black crazy glue that isn't "instant." I can see where I put it and still have time to fiddle.
Steve
Hi Steve,
It's not the CA adhesive that's the problem.
It's the fragility of the resin anchor points that causes the 'eye ends' to snap off if knocked.
That leaves just the 'leg' of the anchor point still in the model.
Two part epoxy I think would be too thick and would probably ooze into the 'eye ends' and once set would be impossible to drill out in situ.
Mike
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Ah ok thanks Mike.
Steve
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Hi all,
The propeller is ready to fit.
Wood laminated 'Resch' propeller from 'Proper Plane' with kit decals,
Mike
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HANNOVER/prop.jpg)
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Yet another Superb build Mike!
RAGIII
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Hi all,
The completed Hannover build is now up in the Completed Models page.
Once again, thanks for your comments and support during this build,
Mike