Author Topic: Just got my WNW DVII F  (Read 4454 times)

Offline cgandiaga

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Just got my WNW DVII F
« on: April 17, 2013, 02:55:00 AM »
And I'm considering some "historical blashphemy".. I want to do the Ernst Udet variant and add the "Du Doch Nicht" to the Tailplane.  Would I be tempting the modeling gods?  Please help a modest pilgrim..

Offline rowan broadbent

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Re: Just got my WNW DVII F
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2013, 03:15:19 AM »
If you can hold on for a couple of months or so I'm going to provide markings for (some of) Udet's other non-BMW D.VIIs - including a rendering of "Du doch nicht!"and one or two others from Jasta 4.

Rowan
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There is a crack, a crack in everything – that’s how the light gets in

Leonard Cohen

Offline Pete Nottingham

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Re: Just got my WNW DVII F
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2013, 03:37:31 AM »
If you can hold on, do so, cos Rowans decals are well worth the wait.

Cheers

Pete.

Offline cgandiaga

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Re: Just got my WNW DVII F
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2013, 03:39:32 AM »
If you can hold on for a couple of months or so I'm going to provide markings for (some of) Udet's other non-BMW D.VIIs - including a rendering of "Du doch nicht!"and one or two others from Jasta 4.

Rowan

Sounds like a cracking idea.  How will I know when they're ready?

Offline stefanbuss

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Re: Just got my WNW DVII F
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2013, 05:35:20 AM »
Isn't the overall agreement that DDN was of OAW'S manufacture? That would mean using the DVIIF kit should be avoided, shouldn't it?

Stefan

Offline cgandiaga

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Re: Just got my WNW DVII F
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2013, 06:12:25 AM »
Isn't the overall agreement that DDN was of OAW'S manufacture? That would mean using the DVIIF kit should be avoided, shouldn't it?

Stefan

Oh bollocks.. will just have to buy another DVII at some point and have both of Udet's mounts...

Offline pepperman42

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Re: Just got my WNW DVII F
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2013, 06:32:53 AM »
I love it - This debate on his markings is always fascinating - and a new Rowan sheet on the horizon is always a good thing!!

Steve

Offline coyotemagic

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Re: Just got my WNW DVII F
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2013, 03:12:32 AM »
If you can hold on, do so, cos Rowans decals are well worth the wait.

Cheers

Pete.
I second that!
Cheers,
Bud
"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream in the dark recesses of the night awake in the day to find all was vanity. But the dreamers of day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, and make it possible." -T. E. Lawrence

Offline stefanbuss

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Re: Just got my WNW DVII F
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2013, 03:28:42 AM »
If you decide not to wait - there is a decalsheet available for one Udet's DVIIs, from Lifelike.

Available at Hannants http://www.hannants.co.uk/product/LL32016

(and they propose to use the DVIIF kit  ;) )

Stefan

Offline cgandiaga

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Re: Just got my WNW DVII F
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2013, 05:46:17 AM »
If you decide not to wait - there is a decalsheet available for one Udet's DVIIs, from Lifelike.

Available at Hannants http://www.hannants.co.uk/product/LL32016

(and they propose to use the DVIIF kit  ;) )

Stefan

I think you missed my point.  The WNW kit already has the Udet variant, but not "Du Doch Nicht!"..

Offline GAJouette

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Re: Just got my WNW DVII F
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2013, 06:55:35 AM »
  Looking forward to seeing your "Du Doch Nicht" when you get your decals my friend.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette       
" What Me Worry"

Offline BoRoss78

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Re: Just got my WNW DVII F
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2013, 09:19:03 AM »
The article in Windsock will help.

‘Udet’s Fokker D.VII Fighters’ by Dan-San Abbott, Windsock Vol.4, Spring 1989.   Oblt. Ernst Udet's "Du doch nicht!!" was a Fokker Co. built D.VII.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 09:33:06 AM by BoRoss78 »
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Offline rowan broadbent

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Re: Just got my WNW DVII F
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2013, 06:17:51 PM »
The article in Windsock will help.

‘Udet’s Fokker D.VII Fighters’ by Dan-San Abbott, Windsock Vol.4, Spring 1989.  Oblt. Ernst Udet's "Du doch nicht!!" was a Fokker Co. built D.VII.

My italics and emphasis. Just a note of caution on making such a clear statement of "fact".......... It aint necessarily so, as the song goes.

For everyone's peace of mind, and to avoid any speculation, I am using the article in the Windsock Fokker anthology vol.2 "The Importance of being Erni's" by Dave Roberts as my principle reference for these markings and this article speculates that "Du doch..." was probably OAW built. In the absence of any clear and unequivocal evidence to the contrary, that is the information I will run with. I know that there is a natural tendency to seek certainties when discussing WWI markings but we all know (or at least should know) that certainty is a rare commodity in this area - despite what many past commentators would have you believe.

Take Dan-San's statements on exact colour references, quoting the Methuen book; many of these stemmed from the time when he thought that he had discovered a kind of "Rosetta Stone" for translating black and white photograph grey-scales into colour, which was later shown to be totally erroneous, though, as far as I know, he never officially "recanted". Nonetheless the observations went into print or remain echoing in cyberspace through the Aerodrome archives and are often repeated just as strongly and with little in the way of supporting evidence by one or two others. Here let me offer a heart-felt caveat: I am not, repeat NOT saying that all that Dan-San wrote was dross, far from it as he contributed much to our current understanding and was a tireless researcher. I would just say that sometimes his enthusiastic search for answers led him to draw conclusions which owed slightly more to wishful thinking than to dispassionate examination of the facts.

I am very cautious in my descriptions of matters where no proof absolute exists, as is anyone else who wants to keep ego and mistaken dogma out of the discussion. In observing the Wingnut Wings approach to markings I note that they seem to mainly go for ones which are reasonably well documented and have a higher than average chance of being "right" whereas I sniff around more on the margins and produce others which are, quite often, more speculative - in some cases ultra speculative but I will always tell you what the speculation is!! It's also worth saying that I have neither the WNW massive photo archive nor try as I might!, do I have Richard Alexander's superlative analytical and observational skills when interpreting photographs. Udet's D.VIIs are a case in point; D.VIIF 4253/18 is pretty well photographed and the serial is positively known, whereas the others which I am tackling have relatively sketchy records.

To my mind there is no better example of the WWI marking sleuth's art than Dave Robert's careful and amusing article in the second Anthology volume - indeed the whole three-volume oeuvre is highly recommended, as is Ray Rimell's exemplary approach to the colours and markings issue.
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything – that’s how the light gets in

Leonard Cohen

Offline mgunns

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Re: Just got my WNW DVII F
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2013, 10:02:01 PM »
I find this discussion interesting, I had my Pfalz DXII on display at the monthly meeting of the Twin cities Aero Historians.  I used a marking off the PHEON sheet for the DXII and I referenced the Windsock DataFile.  I was amazed at the number of people that questioned the validity of the light blue.  Naturally, I "cheated" and used what I had on the bench, which was a little more aqua than light blue, but going on the notion that who knows what color it really is and the other notion:  "It's my model"!
I have several Pheon Sheets with projects in mind and appreciate Rowan's approach to his decals in that he offers that the color is speculative.  I think it makes for a more interesting model and discussion.  As long as people don't get dogmatic about it, it is fun to see the responses that the topic elicits.

I am glad to see Rowan's response to the Du Doch Nicht and look forward to it's release at which time, I will purchase one.

Best

Mark
Mark

We few, we happy few.....

Offline pepperman42

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Re: Just got my WNW DVII F
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2013, 10:18:22 PM »
Well written Rowan. Interpreting century old film and photographs is all speculation to my way of thinking. Deductions can be made based on surviving examples of the real thing but there are always exceptions. Luftwaffe colours 30 years later than our current discussion are a hornets nest and the "benefit" of colour film  is available for analyzing that period.

Steve