forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => What's New => Topic started by: Dave W on August 14, 2023, 09:30:26 AM
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Hello folks
We are exploring a unique opportunity to have a special edition model kit produced for Forum members.
Our friends at Copper State Models are interested in exploring a special edition kit featuring markings exclusive to this edition and only available to Forum members.
As yet no specific subject has been chosen but Copper State’s 1/32 Nieuport Series With markings for a specific ace Is in mind.
Before we take this idea any further we need to know what level of interest there would be among forum members to commit to a special edition kit featuring a specific ace’s markings and possibly some extra 3D printed parts.
We would appreciate members feedback on this unique opportunity. At the moment we're not asking people to commit to purchases but we need an idea of likely sales to determine whether the project is feasible.
This is the first time a modelling forum has become involved in an exclusive edition production process and it is a great opportunity for us to show our confidence in those businesses that support the World War One hobby.
Dave Wilson
Forum owner and Administrator
Gold Coast
Australia
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I for one am extremely interested! Do we have any Idea which Ace? French or British? Either way I am in!!
RAGIII
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Count me in, I was going to get a CSM Nieuport anyway and this just makes it a no-brainer. Heck, I'd probably buy two.
Dave V.
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Even though I’m pretty much a 1/72 builder, this idea intrigues me. What a great way to support both the forum and Copper State. Count me in for one.
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Hi all
It's a very good idea, but as far as I'm concerned I already have 4 Nieuport CSM in my closet. All would therefore depend on the choice of the ace and the attractiveness of the decoration of his mount.
Morane
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I'd love to say yes to this but I wouldn't want to give any false indications to Edgar. I have already built two CSM Nies and have another three in the stash. Next will be Bishop's, Fullard's and/or Hazell's RFC machines and that will likely do me for Nie17s. I haven't yet bought a 21 or 23, so they'd probably be higher in the wants list than another 17. (I do have a Caudron and a Bristol Scout in the stash, so am trying to help keep CSM firing on all cylinders!)
I've got a Model Cellar Bishop figure (but maybe if CSM were including say an Albert Ball figure, with his 'cone de penetration' (Matron!)) that could sway me?
However a project that would not require a 100% new tooling would be a 1/32 Nieuport Triplane (which some of our advanced modellers have already converted from the 17 kit). New wings, decals and a couple of mods would do it.
OK it's not going to be a mass seller, but it wouldn't need too much work and would maybe outsell the 21/23 kits?
Anyway I'd buy a 1/32 CSM Nie Triplane kit (or conversion set) if that's feedback of any use to Edgar.
Sandy
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Well if it's to be a N17 then any RN/RFC markings would do me and I would buy a couple. I hope Edgar has a copy of the C and C book on Britisn Nieports the there lies loads of ideas. I'm hoping that any release would offer a number of options.
Count me in anyway. karen
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Hi
As with some others have 4 in the stash already
However would def get a special Ed and encourage anyone else.
Only caveat would not be interested in Bishop, but possibly Ball. Or some other colourful Bird from Belgium, France or Italy
Thanks
Daz
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Hi folks
to assist in the discussion here are some thoughts on the forum edition kit Proposal
please bear in mind that no decisions have been made yet so these are just discussion points.
1. The subject kit needs to be one with maximum sales potential so we're talking a mainstream kit that is already in production not a new tooling
2. The forum exclusive aspect has not been decided but I imagine it would include exclusive markings for a particular aircraft for particular aces aircraft and possibly some 3D printing parts .
3. No specific ace has been decided on but one that I will suggest is Albert Ball, one of the most famous RFC pilots but a final choice will depend on what information is available to ensure accuracy in the markings.
4. No decision has yet been made on whether the forum edition kit will feature markings for one pilot or various options, it will come down to the costings and the available markings information.
5. The more members who indicate an interest in buying this kit, the better the chance we will have to encourage Copper State to issue this special edition Which would encourage kit sales and also strengthen our forums reputation in the hobby industry
Dave Wilson
Gold Coast
Australia
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Hi Dave,
Much as I think CSM take note of what modelers want, I do wonder about the reasoning behind this.
CSM already sell separate decal sheets for Italian aces and have a range of very good figures.
The CSM range of Nieuport models cover the primary versions and I wouldn't think need that many, if any, additional 3D parts.
If this was exclusive to the forum, the maximum sales would be limited as not everyone would want a Nieuport.
Whether that would be cost effective for CSM is debatable.
If CSM want to try an ace specific model, why go to the expense of a separate kit?
Why not produce decals and if necessary, 3D parts and sell them as an 'ace' update to a standard CSM Nieuport kit.
That way it would be less cost to anyone already with a kit.
Otherwise the standard kit plus add-on could be purchased.
Otherwise we could end up in a Wingnut Wings situation where multiple full kits, such as the Abatros D.Va series, were sold with the same basic model, but just with different decals,
Mike
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I would very likely purchase a "forum special" N17 kit, but having several, would actually prefer a "forum special" decal sheet.
Maybe it could be something like a sheet of N.3 N17s?
Guynemer's #2
Dorme's #12 (later aluminum doped N1720)
Guiguet's #8
Duellin's #3
etc...
I know markings for some of these have been in old kits and an old set by Americal Gryphon, but a new comprehensive sheet would be nice.
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I've been in enforced lurk for quite a while due to not being able to reset my password but I contacted Dave who kindly reset it for me as I wanted to comment on this thread.
Count me in for a for a forum special Nieuport 17, ideally in colourful markings like Dorme's or Boyau's (with the green serpent/dragon down the sides). I have the Spada decals for these but would prefer to use Cartograf versions on a CSM kit. But anything unique/different would interest me.
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Being from near Nottingham, Dave, I would be very interested in a Nieuport with markings and a figure representing the famous Albert Ball. Just my thoughts,
David
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I agree that a decal + bits set would get more engagement here as the Nieuports have been on the market for some time. Personally, I'd buy another full kit if it had unique features. My suggestion would be a Lafayette Escadrille special, with resin Whiskey and Soda lion cub mascots. That shouldn't be too hard. You could even do a double kit or set with Lufbery's Nieuport 21 "L.....Y?" and the usual suspects in Lafayette N.17s, or add the spues and decals for N.17/21 options in a single kit. My Billy Mitchell SPAD 16 can wait ...
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I‘d be in here, too!
(and would love to see a Nieuport 21 in Lufbery‘s markings.)
Andreas
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I agree that a decal + bits set would get more engagement here as the Nieuports have been on the market for some time. Personally, I'd buy another full kit if it had unique features. My suggestion would be a Lafayette Escadrille special, with resin Whiskey and Soda lion cub mascots. That shouldn't be too hard. You could even do a double kit or set with Lufbery's Nieuport 21 "L.....Y?" and the usual suspects in Lafayette N.17s, or add the spues and decals for N.17/21 options in a single kit.
That's a good idea - CSM already do a nice Lufbery figure (which I have). I've been trying to find good lion cubs models to go with him, no luck so far. Black Dog do a French mechanic with a single lion cub, but it's not a very good cub IMO.....
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I agree that a decal + bits set would get more engagement here as the Nieuports have been on the market for some time. Personally, I'd buy another full kit if it had unique features. My suggestion would be a Lafayette Escadrille special, with resin Whiskey and Soda lion cub mascots. That shouldn't be too hard. You could even do a double kit or set with Lufbery's Nieuport 21 "L.....Y?" and the usual suspects in Lafayette N.17s, or add the spues and decals for N.17/21 options in a single kit.
That's a good idea - CSM already do a nice Lufbery figure (which I have). I've been trying to find good lion cubs models to go with him, no luck so far. Black Dog do a French mechanic with a single lion cub, but it's not a very good cub IMO.....
Sorry if I should disappoint you, but once I did a little research on Lufberry and when he became “daddy” of Whiskey (Soda came later anyway…) and as far as I remember, Escadrille Lafayette left the Verdun region after August 1916, leaving their Nieuports behind (including “L…y!”) and moving to Cappy in the Somme area. There they received SPADs . Before getting to Cappy, the pilots were on leave in Paris, picking up Whiskey in September 1916. So no Raoul Lufbery with little Whiskey in front of a Nieuport 21 marked with “L…y!”, I’m afraid.
Andreas
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Count me in for a couple. Additional decal sets sold separately would be welcomed.
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I'd be interested. Would depend a little on subject choice, but I've wanted to build a CSM model.
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Honestly, I am no fan of Nieuports. I have one Ni17 from CSM built and this would be enough for me. But being a member of this amazing forum community I will get one special edition kit if it is indeed released. Moreover, if there is a group build project after the release I will even build one. :)
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Sorry if I should disappoint you, but once I did a little research on Lufberry and when he became “daddy” of Whiskey (Soda came later anyway…) and as far as I remember, Escadrille Lafayette left the Verdun region after August 1916, leaving their Nieuports behind (including “L…y!”) and moving to Cappy in the Somme area. There they received SPADs . Before getting to Cappy, the pilots were on leave in Paris, picking up Whiskey in September 1916. So no Raoul Lufbery with little Whiskey in front of a Nieuport 21 marked with “L…y!”, I’m afraid.
Nice research - you made life easier as only one lion cub is needed if Lufbery is presented with a Nieuport!
A Lafayette edition is definitely not a bad idea for a special edition.
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A 1/32 Forum special?
I commit to two.
Marcus
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No Nieuport for me, thank you.
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I agree that a decal + bits set would get more engagement here as the Nieuports have been on the market for some time. Personally, I'd buy another full kit if it had unique features. My suggestion would be a Lafayette Escadrille special, with resin Whiskey and Soda lion cub mascots. That shouldn't be too hard. You could even do a double kit or set with Lufbery's Nieuport 21 "L.....Y?" and the usual suspects in Lafayette N.17s, or add the spues and decals for N.17/21 options in a single kit.
That's a good idea - CSM already do a nice Lufbery figure (which I have). I've been trying to find good lion cubs models to go with him, no luck so far. Black Dog do a French mechanic with a single lion cub, but it's not a very good cub IMO.....
Sorry if I should disappoint you, but once I did a little research on Lufberry and when he became “daddy” of Whiskey (Soda came later anyway…) and as far as I remember, Escadrille Lafayette left the Verdun region after August 1916, leaving their Nieuports behind (including “L…y!”) and moving to Cappy in the Somme area. There they received SPADs . Before getting to Cappy, the pilots were on leave in Paris, picking up Whiskey in September 1916. So no Raoul Lufbery with little Whiskey in front of a Nieuport 21 marked with “L…y!”, I’m afraid.
Andreas
Here's what I have found: Whiskey was purchased in Paris by Dud Hill, Bill Thaw, Norman Prince, Bert Hall and Kiffin Rockwell for 500 Francs, in September, 1916 as noted (see p. 106, Lafayette Escadrille, Herbert Molloy Mason Jr). There is a picture of Escadrille members at Norman Prince's funeral holding Whiskey (p.208 The Lafayette Flying Corps, Dennis Gordon). Prince died 12 October, 1916 when his Nieuport (N.17?) hit suspended telegraph cables and he cartwheeled into the ground (p. 371, Gordon) after a mission wherein he scored his fourth victory, and Lufbery his fifth. So, Whiskey (as a cub) is appropriate for a Nieuport Lafayette package. Soda did come later, TBD whether during the SPAD period. I forgot about the CSM Lufbery/French pilot figure. Does Edgar still have the molds for this? That would be a very fine addition.
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I would quite like to build a CSM Ni.17, and a special boxing would be wonderful. I have minimal knowledge on pilots and units so would bow to the superior knowledge of others on the forum in that regard but I would be attracted to a "name" like Ball.
Including 3D-printed extras would be most welcome, as would things like paint masks. A real package deal would be cool!
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I would be interested, however, cost would be a factor for me.
As for subject - I'm not fussed. I'll leave that to the more educated forumites ;)
Perhaps something that invokes Des?
Andrew
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I would be interested. CSM has Nieuport 21 & 23 only in Russian markings (maybe only Russia used them?). A Nieuport 11 or 16 in French ace markings would be welcome!
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Previous comment got me thinking. From memory, the Nie21 married the 11/16 fuselage with the N17 wings.
I haven't got the CSM N21 kit, but does this not mean that Edgar has a Nie11 fuselage already in production.
Thus the plastic bits for a complete Nie11/16 kit would just need new wings produced, would it not?
If this is the case, I'd suggest a CSM quality Nieuport Bebe would be a winner, for not too much work. (The existing SH is a bit of a dog as is, apparently, the A-Model too.)
Sandy
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I'm definitely in! Ni 17 with ace markings... yummy! Marc
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Previous comment got me thinking. From memory, the Nie21 married the 11/16 fuselage with the N17 wings.
Unfortunatley not, the 21 was based on the 17 airframe afaik. It used the smaller engine and a similar cowling to the 11.
CSM has an 11/16 in its longer term plans, so fingers crossed it won't be too long before we see it.
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Previous comment got me thinking. From memory, the Nie21 married the 11/16 fuselage with the N17 wings.
Unfortunatley not, the 21 was based on the 17 airframe afaik. It used the smaller engine and a similar cowling to the 11.
After typing the above, I pulled out Ray Sanger's Nieuport book to check, as I'd read that recently and, yes, that's where I saw the 21 described as an N11 fuselage with N17 wings.
(Checking the Datafile Specials, JM Bruce rather avoids the issue by calling it a version of the N17 with the 80hp engine.)
I suppose the main visible difference between the 11 and 17 fuselage aft of the cowling, is the 11's cheek panels so maybe it's a pointless debate anyway!
Sandy
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yes from me!
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I am interested. Count me in!
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After typing the above, I pulled out Ray Sanger's Nieuport book to check, as I'd read that recently and, yes, that's where I saw the 21 described as an N11 fuselage with N17 wings.
(Checking the Datafile Specials, JM Bruce rather avoids the issue by calling it a version of the N17 with the 80hp engine.)
I suppose the main visible difference between the 11 and 17 fuselage aft of the cowling, is the 11's cheek panels so maybe it's a pointless debate anyway!
Sandy
Seems like there's a lot of confusion over this and no plans of the 21 readily available. However, pictures of the 21 appear to show it has a rounded front fuselage section and not the square section of the 11 with the cowling "cheeks". But the RAF Museum website (which has the Nie 21 photo below) still describes it as a Nie 11 fuselage with Nie 17 wings. But the front of the fuselage definitely looks a bit different to the 11 fuselage IMO. I guess we cannot say for sure.....!
It looks like CSM used the same fuselage sprues in the 21 kit as in the 17 kit, so an 11/16 is more likely a future release. But a special edition 21 with "L.....y?" would be of interest to me....
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If a Limited edition Forum special kit comes to fruition, I am in No Matter the subject. That being said I would make the following points.
1. Balls Nieuport as well as all of the LaFayette birds really require nothing more than decals. ( Lufberry and Lion figures Excluded)
2. A Special Decal sheet would be cool. Once the Artwork is done it could be offered in 1/48th and 1/72nd thus bringing in more of our forum members who do not model in 1/32nd.
3. If a Special Nieuport 17 Ace kit was issued why not the Guynemer 17 with Aluminum Fuselage and camo wings. It requires a mix of the CSM kits. It also would fit the need for extra parts in that NO Company has ever done the Unique windscreen seen in numerous photos.
(https://i.postimg.cc/c1wMMj79/ca58dc64664e997648087724c9ae4d66.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/TYxjk9CR/guynemer-escadrille-photo-cigogne14-18-WW1.jpg)
To Me this one has it all, Unique Markings, unusual windscreen, and is based on an existing kit. JMHO,
RAGIII
PS: Also some cool fabric patches on wings and tail.
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After typing the above, I pulled out Ray Sanger's Nieuport book to check, as I'd read that recently and, yes, that's where I saw the 21 described as an N11 fuselage with N17 wings.
(Checking the Datafile Specials, JM Bruce rather avoids the issue by calling it a version of the N17 with the 80hp engine.)
I suppose the main visible difference between the 11 and 17 fuselage aft of the cowling, is the 11's cheek panels so maybe it's a pointless debate anyway!
Sandy
Seems like there's a lot of confusion over this and no plans of the 21 readily available. However, pictures of the 21 appear to show it has a rounded front fuselage section and not the square section of the 11 with the cowling "cheeks". But the RAF Museum website (which has the Nie 21 photo below) still describes it as a Nie 11 fuselage with Nie 17 wings. But the front of the fuselage definitely looks a bit different to the 11 fuselage IMO. I guess we cannot say for sure.....!
It looks like CSM used the same fuselage sprues in the 21 kit as in the 17 kit, so an 11/16 is more likely a future release. But a special edition 21 with "L.....y?" would be of interest to me....
Sanger was wrong in his description of this type. The Nieuport 21 was essentially the Nieuport 17 minus the Vickers with the 80 hp Le Rhone engine and appropriate cowling, with some changes to the innards absent the gun belt spool. The N.21 was intended for longer range escort duties wherein speed and firepower were less important than flight time and range, the smaller Le Rhone, being lighter and less thirsty, accommodating the design goal. I believe a few of the Duks-built N.21s had a synchronized gun but most carried only the wing-mounted Lewis or Hotchkiss. The intended purpose of the N.21 was probably less important to Duks than a modern design around an available engine.
It is purely speculation on my part, but I imagine Nieuport gave minimal design and tooling effort to the N.21 in response to a solicitation for a relatively small quantity of aircraft. Hence the N.21 comprised of the N.17 airframe and wings, with only the N.11 cowling as a reversion. Pilots flying the N.11 were clamoring for the "new" Nieuports and something with a N.11 fuselage would have been, right or wrong, perceived as obsolescent. Looking at the round, stringer-defined N.17bis/N.24 fuselage that wasn't far off into the future, I can't imagine anyone at Nieuport advocating the N.11 fuselage in response to a solicitation with the N.17 already in production and N.24 almost certainly on the drawing board.
I am glad Edgar seized the opportunity to produce a series of quality kits with so much commonality, yet so many potential schemes.
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I am overdue for a CSM Nieuport, so would be in depending on the subject. Actually not that interested in “famous aces.” More interested in anonymous workhorses. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Hi here’s an idea based on what others seem to be going for:
Have two aces set Ball and Guynemer
Include all markings and 3D print including main ones for Nieuport 11/
17
And as a bonus do a marking set for Balls Se5’s and Guynemers flying stork Spad’s
That way you could use similar decals but for other kits - Roden / Wingnut Se5 and Roden Spad ( or even better a future CSM Spad- just kidding)
How’s them apples?
Daz
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I'm interested, but it would depend on the subject. I'm currently working on a N17 piloted by an Italian ace.
Lou
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I would be in interested in the Lafayette Escadrille version particularly. Also, the CSM SPAD idea mentioned above sounds really good also.
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however, cost would be a factor for me.
And for me, but I'd like to think I'll find a way!
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And for me, but I'd like to think I'll find a way!
I hear you!!
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Please count me in, I'd be very interested
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Late to the dance but I'm in.
Steve
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I'll second the motion for the Guynemer 17. But I'm in for whatever winds up being chosen.
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i'm in for whatever.
Ball's a good idea.
L....y? could be packaged with the Lufbery figure and i'd buy it even though i already have the figure. a lion cub would be nice if it fits the period. it could also have markings for more Lafayette Escadrille ships. This sheet could be separate or part of the kit, but the ships should all be from the same time period so a flightline could be an option....
a Storks edition, which could be a separate sheet or 'the kit', but several storks options would be delightful.
they've already covered most of the RFC options i'm interested in but i'd buy it anyway because a) i'm Nieuport-greedy and b) team player etc.
My personal first choice would be the Maurice Boyau ship with the snake thingy on it. apparently the dog shown was his too but i hadn't noticed this ship until today so i can't confirm that, Google isn't always right. but it'd be a great candidate for a sheet if not a boxing. They've done some splendid figures so a figure of Boyau (or any ace that's never been sculped tbh) would be a very special special edition, even if they sell decals and fig later.
Donat Makijonek's ship also fascinates me and owuld be a great candidate for a decal sheet as you ain't doin' that art with masks.
The WNW/Kotare (i need to find a way to abbreviate "kotare" to vex Mr Alexander) plan of dropping ace boxings with decals and figures is, i think, an attractive one, and if CSM start doing this too with any regularity it'd be my happiest path to the poorhouse.
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I'm not a 1/32nd modeler, heck, I'm not much of a modeler at all here of late, :( but I think even I could get interested in this one, especially if the decal scheme is one in which I'm interested.
Warren
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I too am late getting into this.
I would say yes also, but would like to see which Nieuport it is, what the markings are, and the cost before I commit.
Thanks
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I could definarely go for a Ball kit and a Lafayette or 3. Regards, Pete
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Color me interested.