WW1 Aircraft Modeling > Under Construction
Tout sang qui coule est rouge
andonio64:
--- Quote from: masterKamera on June 06, 2022, 03:57:02 AM ---
per your photos...
the bottom photo has the original artwork of the bleeding heart. if you notice the bend in the heart is actualy on the natural bend of the fuselage of that airraft. in the top photo of it on a plane, the heart logo has the bend, but the bend is on a FLAT surface of the fuselage.
and the writing around the logo is 100% poorly done photo shop work. wrong angle to it,, ie it was written on a flat surface, not the multi curved surface of an aircraft..
however the logo doesnt need the writing to work, and unless one took the time to hand draw it... well it just doesnt work sadly. But i honestly doubt the words were ever painted on the logo.
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Hi masterKamera, thanks for your interesting reply,
I am not so sure about your interpretation I am enough sure that the bleeding heart was designed by someone and pasted on both the photos because shows the hilt of the sword always on the right, and this mean that in one case it appears towards the front and in the other case towards the tail, so the clumsy designer was maybe unable to flip the sword in photoshop leaving the lettering in the same position, moreover to me the curving you talk about is not evident at all and the two drawings are too much identical to be real, even more so that it shows on two different planes! See the position of the sword with respect to the heart contour and also the shape of the hearth which is too much regular.
Moreover Bullard had never gone higher in grade than Corporal and having no certified victories it would be very unlikely that he was allowed to paint a personal marking replacing the squadron one.
If the man in the SPAD is Bullard then it is plausible he shows the chief head on his Nieuport.
That said I still go for the hypothesis he had no personal marking ever and the story he told long after the war is an invention of his drinking with friends in a pub...
--- Quote from: RAGIII on June 06, 2022, 04:24:51 AM ---I say go with the option you like. Personally I would tend to go with Ray's drawing based on Jon's interpretation. Of course I am always up for a scheme based on conjecture. For example Udets candy striped DVII and Erich Loewenhardt's Yellow fuselage DVII. By the way the SPAD in the bottom photo looks like a 13 to Me.
JMHO,
RAGIII
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Thank you Rick for this comment!
I agree with your position, I will pretend I was one of the friends of Bullard fascinated by his war histories in the pub and will paint my SPAD XIII as suggested by Ray.
andonio64:
--- Quote from: Borsos on June 06, 2022, 03:03:58 AM ---Hello Antonio,
I love your project and will follow your progress closely. I wished, I could give you a better answer then wikipedia regarding Bullards later career in WW1, but wikipedia.fr says „ Le 11 janvier 1918, il est réaffecté au 170e régiment d'infanterie française, et sert au camp de La Fontaine du Berger près d'Orcines, dans le Puy-de-Dôme, où il forme les jeunes recrues avant qu'elles aillent au front, jusqu'à l'armistice de 1918.“ (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Bullard)
When it comes to the daggered heart and his slogan, it all depends on what kind of historical proof you need to be happy with. The fun thing with ww1 planes is for me: There‘s so much room for artistic license. So if you like the story, just go for it!
Best regards,
Andreas
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Andreas, thanks for your additional research which fits with the information I had, about my project... well as I said above I won't care of historical proofs (I always look for it but as you say not often we can reach it on WW1 planes!) and go for Ray Rimell profile.
Antonio
WD:
BLUF(Bottom Line Up Front) it's your model, so you're going to be the one having to make the decision. Yes, I'm like you in that I want to do as accurate a job as I can, but at the end of the day, and especially with WWI a/c, sometimes we just have to push forward and go with what we feel is best.
There's a lot about Eugene Bullard's career and life we'll never be able to reliably verify, and his wife said he wasn't above telling a tall tale. (In truth, I think she just said he was a liar, but . . . ) Anyway, he was a heck of a man, but then most of the men we study about here were.
WD
PS: I used to have a lesson on him I used to teach my students, so he's kind of special to me.
andonio64:
--- Quote from: WD on June 06, 2022, 11:16:11 PM ---BLUF(Bottom Line Up Front) it's your model, so you're going to be the one having to make the decision. Yes, I'm like you in that I want to do as accurate a job as I can, but at the end of the day, and especially with WWI a/c, sometimes we just have to push forward and go with what we feel is best.
There's a lot about Eugene Bullard's career and life we'll never be able to reliably verify, and his wife said he wasn't above telling a tall tale. (In truth, I think she just said he was a liar, but . . . ) Anyway, he was a heck of a man, but then most of the men we study about here were.
WD
PS: I used to have a lesson on him I used to teach my students, so he's kind of special to me.
--- End quote ---
Thanks for your very interesting and passionate reply. I feel a great respect and admiration for Bullard and for all the difficulties he faced because of his skin color and I think being a bit "braggart" (I don't know if the word sounds correct without being offensive - which is not my intention of course) is always a more or less hidden side of all the men who are aware of their own value.
I will go - as said for the painting schema by Ray Rimell and will try to print decals on my own for the bleeding heart.
Antonio
Monty:
Hi Antonio! Really great to have you back on a fascinating and rare subject - but something really worth doing! There are some interesting thoughts about this - I definitely agree the Spad XIII has the heart emblem applied, the shading, tone and general feel of the heart itself on the fabric surface is just authentic to me. Then I think someone photoshopped it and added the lettering around it on the XIII pic. Then I think someone "lifted" this new marking and put it on the Nieuport! Just look at the stringer highlights showing up! My feeling is a heart without the lettering on a XIII in natural fabric finish (Bit yellow but definitely not blue), but I'm not altogether sure if the lettering wasn't added later.... Do you need help making the heart decals? Regards, Marc
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