forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com

WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Topic started by: Chris Johnson on April 13, 2013, 03:24:03 AM

Title: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Chris Johnson on April 13, 2013, 03:24:03 AM: (http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/BlackPrinceTitle_zps2adc99ad.jpg)

With Andrew McKeever's Bristol Fighter under my belt, I'm moving on to another Canadian flyer's aircraft. This time I've chosen William Melville Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince' N5487 which he flew in June and July 1917 as a member of the Black Flight, 10 Naval Squadron, RNAS. Alexander scored ten victories while flying the Triplane, and eight of those were when flying 'Black Prince'. Alexander survived the war with twenty-three victories and died in 1988.

I'll be building Wing Nut Wing's 1/32 Sopwith Triplane kit and utilizing Pheon's decal sheet #32018 for the 'Black Prince' markings. Rowan's decal package comes well packed with five sheets of colour artwork supplementing a full A4 sheet of decals.

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5063_zpsc6605888.jpg)

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5062_zps2142bbfb.jpg)

Fellow forum member Dave Wilson advised me that the Triplane kit shares a number of parts from WnW's earlier Sopwith Pup kit and as such, the modeller needs to be aware that there will be a bit of a challenge when mating the fuselage to the lower wing. Having been forewarned, my first task was to wet sand the bottom of the cockpit floor in hopes of alleviating the issue somewhat.

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5011_zps537ee3d3.jpg)

With that done, I undercoated the various parts that will be woodgrained with Tamiya Dark Yellow, and then applied the oil paint. I changed my technique somewhat by using a light shade 502 Abteilung oil paint (third from the left) from their Vehicle Weathering Set. The colours here are as well suited to aircraft as vehicles. I must have put it on a bit too thick as six days later, I'm still waiting for them to fully dry! Next time I go to the art store, I'll be picking up a bottle of Liquin.

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Misc/DSCN5067_zps6487736e.jpg)

I've always been apprehensive about weathering my aircraft as I'm afraid of ruining them but this time around, I'm going to give it a whirl. To get things started, I used the hairspray technique on the cowl and side panels. For those not familiar with the process, I based coated them with Tamiya Aluminum thinned with lacquer thinner. Two mist coats of aerosol hairspray followed and when it was dry, I shot them with Tamiya Flat Black thinned with water. Then it's just a simple matter of soaking the parts with some water for a minute of two and gently scrubbing off areas of the black paint with a stiff bristle brush. The hardest part of the process is to restrain yourself from getting carried away when you start scrubbing.

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5055_zps81980763.jpg)

That's it for today. Thanks for dropping by!

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: mgunns on April 13, 2013, 03:41:01 AM: Hello Chris:

Sopwith Mania is running wild! I am working on the HC Camel. No pics posted. I am going to do this one next. It looks like you are making progress, albeit slow waiting for the oils to dry. I like the effect of the hairspray technique. What will they think of next? I will be watching and following your build. I enjoyed the pup and look forward to your build.

Best

Mark
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: LindsayT on April 13, 2013, 03:57:33 AM: I'm loving the chipping, Chris. That looks like something I'd like to try in the future. Keep it coming!

LT
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: coyotemagic on April 13, 2013, 04:22:47 AM: Beautiful work on weathering the cowling and side panels, Chris. I also snuck a peek at your wings and you did a brilliant job on the shading. This is going to be one stunning kite.
Cheers,
Bud
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: rhallinger on April 13, 2013, 06:19:05 AM: Great work on the cowling Chris! You've executed the hairspray technique in a very convincing manner. Gives me the nerve to maybe try it next time out! ;) The rest of this will be fun to watch. :D

Regards,

Bob
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: michael on April 13, 2013, 06:48:12 AM: Fantastic start on the weathering Chris :)

Good luck with the rest of your build.

I have just got the triplane so will be following closely.

michael
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Des on April 13, 2013, 06:48:38 AM: Excellent work on the cowl and access panel chipping Chris, it liiks very authentic. I also took a sneak peak at your wings, very well done.

Des.
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: GAJouette on April 13, 2013, 07:12:38 AM: Chris,
Outstanding first progress my old friend. Your cowl and access panels are some first rate weathering.I'm looking forward to following along and taking notes for my pair of Tripes.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: pepperman42 on April 13, 2013, 07:25:59 AM: Nice work Chris -At one point wasnt there a Black Flight group build in the works? Anyway - watching this one closely!!

Steve
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Chris Johnson on April 13, 2013, 08:30:16 AM: Sorry guys. I fixed the Photobucket links so they don't take you off the forum. This is the first time I've encountered that issue and it makes me wonder if PB has changed the linking setup. When I copied the usual link, it included code that's never been there before.

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Chris Johnson on April 13, 2013, 09:04:39 AM: Quote from: pepperman42 on April 13, 2013, 07:25:59 AM
Nice work Chris -At one point wasnt there a Black Flight group build in the works? Anyway - watching this one closely!!

That was Gary, Lance and I, after we finished our McKeever Brisfits. As Lance and Gary have been held up due to their employment commitments, I decided to get started before I slipped back into another AFV build.

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: kinnies on April 13, 2013, 10:36:53 AM: Hi Chris,
I'm looking forward to following this build. I've got Black Maria on the bench and hope to be able to post some pics soon.
Love the weathering on the cowling. It really looks the real deal.
Cheers,
John
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Chris Johnson on April 14, 2013, 08:49:06 AM: Next in line was the wings. It seems there's no hard evidence that Black Prince was painted in either PC10 or PC12. I decided to go with a brown PC12 shade and started out with Tamiya Red Brown, lightened somewhat with their Dark Yellow, and thinned with lacquer thinner. I understand that PC12 is 'allegedly' more chocolate brown than red brown, but I'm anticipating the weathering process will darken it quite a bit. The undersides of the wings were shot with Tamiya Deck Tan. Once again, there appears to be no hard and fast rule whether the PC12 wrapped around the edges of the wings, so I dispensed with that feature.

Once the base coat was applied, instead of shooting a gloss undercoat for the decals, I brushed on Future as an experiment. When that dried, I added the WnW roundel decals. I used a hair dryer for the first time to seat the decals and it makes an incredible difference. Give it a whirl. You'll like it.

Finally, I sealed the decals with a coat of Dullcote and this is what I ended up with. What the . . . ?? :o :o :o

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5013_zps23006889.jpg)

Evidently, my mistake was in not covering the entire wing with Future. To fix the problem, I employed some weathering procedures in an effort to balance everything out.

Next step was to tackle the rib shading and I'm going to keep trying the pastel shading technique until I finally get it right!

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5014_zps216b0291.jpg)

I used MIG pastels and after applying them, this is how the undersides of the wings and tailplane looked. Not bad.

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5053_zps682aacca.jpg)

As you can see below, I got a bit carried away on the bottom wing, and my choice of pastel colour might have been a bit to dark. :-[

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5049_zpsdfc7746a.jpg)

To tone down the reddish brown paint and overstated rib shading, I employed a filter (glaze) which is nothing more than lightly brushed on coats of heavily thinned (90-95%) oil paint. I applied the filter six or seven times until I was happy with the fading effect I had achieved.

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5072_zps7ed6c624.jpg)

Now it all looks a bit more like a well weathered, dusty chocolate brown.

Thanks for looking.

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Vickers on April 14, 2013, 09:51:28 AM: You're certainly off to a good start on this Tripehound, Chris. The pastel technique for highlighting the ribs looks like a fine alternative to painting the effect- I may have to give that a try someday. Nice subject choice, too. When the time comes for me to attempt the Triplane, I (and many others here) will certainly benefit from your experience so please keep these updates coming!
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Des on April 14, 2013, 09:56:04 AM: Your pastel technique appears to be working well Chris, the underside of the wings look brilliant. I can see where the over use of the pastels can cause problems but your remedy rectified the issue. I have had no luck using pastels so I will stick with my pencil technique. The Tripe is looking great and I look forward to further updates.

Des.
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: GAJouette on April 14, 2013, 09:58:17 AM: Chris,
Outstanding progress my old friend. Your mixture of PC-12 looks excellent to my eyes. Impressive weathering todate as well. Keep up the Excellence .
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: kinnies on April 14, 2013, 10:58:11 AM: I'll just repeat what's been said already. The pastel shading looks great as does the PC-12. Going together fast and fabulously. The hair dryer trick also seems to work really well. Not needing a hair dryer of my own >:( I'll have to grab SWMBO's when she's not looking ... and hope I don't forget to return it.
John
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: rhallinger on April 14, 2013, 11:10:08 AM: Chris:

The wings are brilliantly executed! They look the part of a well-used machine at the front, and the color is excellent. :D

I'm interested in your filter technique. You mentioned heavily thinned oil paint. Can you tell us what paint and color(s), and what you used to thin it? Thanks, and carry on with the exemplary work!

Regards,

Bob
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: pepperman42 on April 14, 2013, 02:49:49 PM: Nice jump forward. My fears of hair dryering (is that a word?) decals have been eased a bit looking at your results. Nice paint work too!!

Steve
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Chris Johnson on April 15, 2013, 01:08:55 AM: Thanks to all of you for your comments. As always, they give me the impetus to keep moving forward.

Steve and John: Frankly, I was very surprised just how much of a difference the hair dryer makes. The roundels wrap around the edges of the wings and ailerons and I've always had issues getting them to conform to a 90° angle like that. When I hit them with the heat though, they virtually snapped into place. It was literally that quick.

I spirited away my wife's spare unit John. I'll wager your's has a spare unit too as it's an essential piece of kit for women. Now it is for me too!

Bob: I used 'Wash Brown', the 4th from the left, for my filter. Humbrol enamels work well too. In many instances, fellows will use a lighter shade of colour in their filters, but in this instance, the darker shade worked well for me. The secret is to apply multiple thin coats so they build upon themselves, giving a certain degree of depth to the effect.

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Misc/DSCN5067_zps6487736e.jpg)

Vickers: Bud (Coyotemagic) is the go-to guy here when it comes to pastel rib shading. He does some exquisite work with his. He tells me it's easy but I continue to struggle with it. One of these days I'll get the hang of it though.

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Dave W on April 15, 2013, 08:31:32 AM: This is an excellent build log Chris and your rib detail work is especially impressive. The model is looking very nice and the hairspray chipping technique is really fascinating. The result looks very realistic.

cheers

Dave Wilson
Gold Coast
Australia
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: lcarroll on April 15, 2013, 09:47:47 AM: Wow, Chris, what a great start! I just checked after only a few day's absence and you are already well into this one. Gotta say you aced the hairspray chipping and the pastel work is really impressive, not to mention the effect you achieved with the filter coats. Like Steve I've avoided the hair dryer thing with decals out of fear of damaging or melting something; I think having seen this I'll be pilfering the spare unit I've seen around here and give it a try.
Very very nice work, hopefully you'll be done before I start and I'll just ride along in your slipstream. ;)
Cheers,
Lance
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: RAGIII on April 15, 2013, 09:46:41 PM: Chris,
Excellent results on your decal application and pastel shading! I think you have the technique mastered ! I will have to give the hair dryer a go on my next build! May even be the Triplane although I am leaning towards a Snipe or Nieuport 28 right now.
RAGIII
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: gcn on April 15, 2013, 09:56:24 PM: I like the results Chris, some of the old AFV techniques on show.

I find with a hairdryer I get microbubbles appear, is that due to too much heat do you think.

This build log will be useful as I have the tripe up next after I finish the Albie i'm working on. I also like the hairspray results too, so much so i've decanted a small amount to try out on the Albatros fuel tank and cowlings, so i'll blame you if it goes wrong.

I thinned the floor down on my Pup and it fitted like a dream so I would be interested to see whether the same happens to this build.

Cheers, Gary
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: michael on April 15, 2013, 11:49:42 PM: Great stuff Chris :) and thanks for sharing your tips ;)

michael
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: mgunns on April 16, 2013, 12:46:58 AM: Hello Chris:

Looking good to this point. Yes, if you are using Future for a gloss coat, it is highly recommended to do the whole surface as it will affect the effect of the dull coat, as you found out. You managed to overcome the challenge in True Chris fashion and move on. I like your pastel rib shading, but like Des, I have not had much success with it, so I will stick with the painting method. I like your PC12 and the use of the Hair Spray technique is something I have to try. Excellent results. Looking forward to the next update.

Best

Mark
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Chris Johnson on April 16, 2013, 08:41:09 AM: Thanks so much for all of your comments!

Quote from: gcn on April 15, 2013, 09:56:24 PM
I find with a hairdryer I get microbubbles appear, is that due to too much heat do you think.

It sounds like those microbubbles might be blisters Gary, so perhaps it was too hot.

Quote from: gcn on April 15, 2013, 09:56:24 PM
This build log will be useful as I have the tripe up next after I finish the Albie i'm working on. I also like the hairspray results too, so much so i've decanted a small amount to try out on the Albatros fuel tank and cowlings, so i'll blame you if it goes wrong.

Thanks for the warning Gary! I'll hurry this build of mine along so I'm finished before you start yours. No way do I want mine compared to the beauty you'll build! ;D

As for the hairspray, I simply sprayed it on from an aerosol can. I'll happily take all the credit if you're successful. ;D

Quote from: gcn on April 15, 2013, 09:56:24 PM
I thinned the floor down on my Pup and it fitted like a dream so I would be interested to see whether the same happens to this build.

I have my fingers crossed that it takes care of the issue too.

Quote from: lcarroll on April 15, 2013, 09:47:47 AM
Very very nice work, hopefully you'll be done before I start and I'll just ride along in your slipstream. ;)

I think that if you try really hard (http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/gifs/work_zps8f1feed8.gif), you can catch up to me and take over the point. ;)

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Ian from Doncaster on April 16, 2013, 05:02:03 PM: Chris your pastel rib shading looks great, especially the centre wing which looks spot on.
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: tankbear on April 20, 2013, 09:20:25 AM: Chris,
Another beauty in the works as usual. Nice to see some weathering going on -- these planes are just to neat and clean for me...
Bob
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Chris Johnson on April 20, 2013, 11:12:27 PM: Quote from: tankbear on April 20, 2013, 09:20:25 AM
Another beauty in the works as usual. Nice to see some weathering going on -- these planes are just to neat and clean for me...

It's good to see you drop in Bob. I'm throwing caution to the wind on this one, so it'll be anything but neat and clean. I have no doubt that I'll unintentionally go overboard but I'm prepared for that . . . I think . . . :-\

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Chris Johnson on April 21, 2013, 10:08:14 AM: Slow progress being made, but I have managed to finish the rotary engine. It's pretty simple so all I added was 2lb monofilament line for the spark plug leads.

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5075_zps2c6dd5dd.jpg)

The engine was airbrushed with Tamiya Metallic Gray, and given a wash of 502 Abteilung Engine Grease oil paint. This colour really does look like grease when you squeeze it out of the tube.

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5088-400_zps6ef9f8a2.jpg)

Aside from some detail painting, that's pretty much it.

Thanks for looking.

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: coyotemagic on April 21, 2013, 10:20:27 AM: Gorgeous engine, Chris. Weathered perfectly. In spite of your protests to the contrary, you AFV guys have a knack for weathering. ;)
Cheers,
Bud
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: michael on April 21, 2013, 06:33:08 PM: Fantastic work on the engine Chris it looks a treat

michael
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: GAJouette on April 21, 2013, 09:54:27 PM: Chris,
Outstanding my old friend. Just add gasoline and oil to that beautiful engine and let here rip.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: lcarroll on April 21, 2013, 11:30:03 PM: Chris,
Bud's comment on transfering weathering skills from AFV's to Aircraft is spot on; beautiful results on the engine, almost a sin to cover it up. Very nice work so far, keep those updates coming!
Cheers,
Lance
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: pepperman42 on April 22, 2013, 12:55:11 AM: Perfect colours and tones on that one!! Looking forward to the small finishing detail painting. Are the 502 paints straight up artists oils?

Steve
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Chris Johnson on April 22, 2013, 05:37:29 AM: Thanks guys for taking the time to post your comments. They're very much appreciated.

Quote from: pepperman42 on April 22, 2013, 12:55:11 AM
Are the 502 paints straight up artists oils?

Yes they are Steve. They handle exactly the same. The image below will give you a size comparison between their 20 ml tube and an old 1.25 oz tube I have. While the tubes are a bit smaller, the set of six only cost me $22.00 plus shipping.

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Misc/DSCN5127_zps4a2c896f.jpg)

I bought my set online from Track48 which is located in Toronto. They've given me good service in the past and this experience was no different.

http://www.track48.com/shop/product.php?productid=1461&cat=0&page=1

They also have some interesting looking metallic oil colours too which I'm going to try too.

http://www.track48.com/shop/manufacturers.php?manufacturerid=55

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: tankbear on April 22, 2013, 09:31:55 AM: Chris,

Very nice engine.... may have to pick up some of the 502 paints.... I expect that the next Sherman you build will have the rotary engine in it as you are getting really good at them.

This one looks to be just about falling together for you... a bit different than when you built the Pup isn't it? ;D

Carry on....
Bob
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: pepperman42 on April 23, 2013, 02:21:01 AM: Thanks for the info Chris. Garfield at Track48 and I go way back to Peel Scale Modellers and IPMS Toronto days some 20 years ago. He provides a great online service. Dave at Hornet Hobbies is another favourite stop when I want a "brick and morter" experience.

Steve
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Chris Johnson on April 24, 2013, 09:12:26 AM: I visited Hornet Hobbies a couple of times years ago and I agree, Dave was a really friendly fellow. He has a great shop but the downside is that it's in Toronto and I just don't go there because of the traffic issues.

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: ALBATROS1234 on April 24, 2013, 05:50:53 PM: most likely student grade oils mixed into modeller friendly colors. cool deal there. your tripe is looking pretty swell there if i must say so myself. i like the overall color of the pc-10. i coulda told you that you have to brush the whole wing in future to get an even glosscote. i learned that some time ago. which you can eventually get the overall matte effect bust you have to use like 3 cans of dullcote. i also do a sealer coat of future before i dullcote it. i dont know if its necessary probably just my habit. i like the weathered look after you apply your oil filter. as well as your chipped up cowl and panels. as they say 2 thumbs up.
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: mgunns on April 26, 2013, 02:14:33 AM: Hello Chris:

Engine looks outstanding. I am presently stalled on Mr. Camel. Looking forward to updates on your Tripe.

Best

Mark
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: bbrockel on April 26, 2013, 02:22:01 AM: Great job on your engine. Looks like ones hands would get greasy touching it. :)
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Chris Johnson on April 26, 2013, 02:47:43 AM: Thanks for your comments guys! Progress continues and I now have the cockpit almost finished. I still have to add the seatbelts and do a bit more detail painting. I'm cheating a bit this time around as I've only added a couple of representative control lines from the rudder pedals and none at all from the control stick. As any of you who've followed my past build logs know, I'm a long way from being a modelling purist and as there's little to be seen of the cockpit once the fuselage is buttoned up, I'm cutting some corners here.

I'm also carrying the hairspray technique over to the sheet metal section of the fuselage top piece. The way I'm justifying it in my mind is that the mechanics and armourers have given that part some rough handling while engaged in routine maintenance. That's my story and I'm sticking with it. The other way of looking at it is that this is an experiment in progress to see what shakes out in the end!

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5146_zps1cfd9c32.jpg)

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: pepperman42 on April 26, 2013, 03:28:25 AM: That looks excellent Chris. Great progress!! 502 again for the wood effect?

Steve
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: michael on April 26, 2013, 03:55:05 AM: Great stuff Chris, that wood effect looks fantastic.

michael
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Chris Johnson on April 26, 2013, 04:17:39 AM: Quote from: pepperman42 on April 26, 2013, 03:28:25 AM
That looks excellent Chris. Great progress!! 502 again for the wood effect?

Yes indeed. Straight out of the tube for a light woodgrain effect.

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5132_zps2710cc80.jpg)

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: RAGIII on April 26, 2013, 05:50:08 AM: Lovely wood grain Chris! I just did my woodwork for my Tripe. I will start a build blog soon.
Yours is looking terrific!
RAGIII
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: bobs_buckles on April 26, 2013, 06:03:24 AM: You're doing great work, Chris ;) Long may that continue.

Vb
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: coyotemagic on April 26, 2013, 06:33:07 AM: Brilliant work on the cockpit, Chris. The wood grain is fantastic.
Cheers,
Bud
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: GAJouette on April 26, 2013, 06:37:37 AM: Chris,
Excellent wood grain my old friend. Looking forward to seeing more.Until keep up the outstanding works.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: LindsayT on April 26, 2013, 02:24:35 PM: Likin' what I'm seein', Chris. Did you end up masking the stringers?

LT
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: uncletony on April 26, 2013, 10:35:12 PM: Looks great Chris
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Chris Johnson on April 26, 2013, 11:47:31 PM: Thanks to one and all for your comments!

Quote from: LindsayT on April 26, 2013, 02:24:35 PM
Did you end up masking the stringers?

Nope. I used the artist pens as suggested and did it freehand. Not surprisingly, I had to touch up some of the linen colour when the pen took on a life of its own and strayed off course. All in all though, I'm turning into a big fan of these coloured pens for detail work.

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Pete Nottingham on April 27, 2013, 01:24:02 AM: Chris, stunning woodgrain mate, lovely job.

Cheers

Pete.
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: pepperman42 on April 27, 2013, 02:25:47 AM: re the coloured pens - sounds like this tip has been mentioned before but I did a search and couldnt come up with anything. These are found at art stores by the sounds and are soft tip? hard/ waterbased? manufacturer? Sorry if this is a repeat.

Steve
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Chris Johnson on April 27, 2013, 09:29:00 AM: Quote from: pepperman42 on April 27, 2013, 02:25:47 AM
re the coloured pens - sounds like this tip has been mentioned before but I did a search and couldnt come up with anything. These are found at art stores by the sounds and are soft tip? hard/ waterbased? manufacturer? Sorry if this is a repeat.

Steve

Check out this thread Steve.

http://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=1667.msg27096#msg27096

I found a set of the Faber Castell pens at Michaels. I thought Curry Arts would have them, but I was wrong.

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: pepperman42 on April 27, 2013, 12:07:36 PM: Thanks Chris - off to Michaels I go!!

Steve
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Chris Johnson on April 30, 2013, 09:11:27 AM: A little more progress to report. I have the undercarriage and wheels assembled.

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5152_zpsec53c16d.jpg)

I have to say that I struggled with this assembly right off the bat. WnW would have you assemble it as a stand-alone sub-assembly and after it's together, attach it to the fuselage. The problem here is that the locating points are poor at best where the axle and airfoil (if that's what it's called) attach to the legs. There's just no structural integrity to the sub-assembly at all.

I initially pre-painted the pieces and then glued them together with superglue, hoping that I had guessed at the correct angle for the legs. There's simply no positive locating points to guide the modeller. I left the assembly overnight and when I picked it up the next day, it literally just fell apart into its component parts. Second time around, I tacked it together with superglue and reinforced the joints with 5 minute epoxy glue. I may get a rude awakening when I attach the undercarriage to the fuselage if I don't have the leg angles correct. Oh well, I'll cross that bridge when I get to it, but 5 minute epoxy isn't conducive to taking it all apart if necessary!

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Dave W on April 30, 2013, 09:37:43 AM: Excellent work on your Tripe Chris. As you know the kit has some design/ engineering issues and the tricky undercarriage is one of them. Rest assured when you progress past the fuselage/ lower wing fit issue and non-fitting cockpit coaming, most of the build is straightforward.

The thing about WNW kits, like any model kits, is that they have faults and flaws too, but the great mass of WNW fans out there wants to maintain the myth that WNW kits are perfection in every way. The kits are state of the art and without doubt the best WW1 models on the market right now, but they have some faults too and need a careful and considered approach to building to get that showroom result.

Your Tripe is looking really impressive and the wood effect is very well done.

cheers

Dave Wilson
Gold Coast
Australia
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: GAJouette on April 30, 2013, 09:53:14 AM: Chris,
As always outstanding progress my old friend.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Ian from Doncaster on April 30, 2013, 05:22:24 PM: Great looking undercarriage Chris! - no innuendo intended....

This looks the same assembly as the WNW Pup. The locating tabs for the struts to go into the fuselage are small too, but the whole thing comes together with rigging.

With the Pup (and several others) I used the fuselage locating holes as a guide to making the u/c assembly as accurately as possible. It can be very fiddly to hold the u/c legs to fuselage in place without glue, but once in place I then rest the model on its legs (without wheels) to check the alignment with Mk1 eyeball. Then I removed the u/c assembly whilst its glue set. Typically I then dropped the whole thing from the shelf and had to start again! I would also leave the u/c off the model until the wings are attached, despite the order in the instructions, except if the u/c struts need to fit to the wing roots.

I am really liking these Tripe builds, as I have one in my stash. My problem is I have 4 or 5 kits I want to start next, but have to choose 1...
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: rhallinger on April 30, 2013, 08:35:27 PM: The undercarriage assembly looks great Chris! :D I hope it works out well in final aircraft assembly. :) Carry on!

Regards,

Bob
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: RAGIII on April 30, 2013, 11:24:08 PM: The gear looks terrific Chris. I was noticing that there isn't much to hold the parts together, spreader bar and so forth. I think I might try assembling the spreader bar and just placing the struts on then attach the wheels. hopefully I can then adjust the struts to fit the fuselage before gluing them in place on the spreader bar ?
RAGIII
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Chris Johnson on May 03, 2013, 09:14:09 AM: Thanks again for all of your comments guys.

Quote from: RAGIII on April 30, 2013, 11:24:08 PM
The gear looks terrific Chris. I was noticing that there isn't much to hold the parts together, spreader bar and so forth. I think I might try assembling the spreader bar and just placing the struts on then attach the wheels. hopefully I can then adjust the struts to fit the fuselage before gluing them in place on the spreader bar ?
RAGIII

That sounds similar to Dave Wilson's approach where he told me that he assembled the undercarriage using the fuselage mounting points to ensure the correct angle on the legs. Having already built the Pup a couple of years ago, I have no excuse for not thinking of this approach myself. (http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/gifs/stupidme2_zps2975f7a0.gif)

Things are moving right along as I now have the fuselage buttoned up and a base coat of paint applied. 'Black Prince' may or may not have had a woodgrain coaming section, but for the purposes of my model, it does. I was fortunate that Dave Wilson told me beforehand that it's necessary to insert the coaming between the struts before gluing them to the cockpit floor as it would be problematic to coax it into position between them once the struts are in place. Once I had the coaming in place, everything else literally fit like a glove. I applied a wash of 502 Abteilung 'Engine Grease' to the firewall. I considered flicking some on it with a paint brush to represent some oil blow-back spots and stains but virtually none of the firewall will be visible, so I didn't bother.

Once again guys, I know the weathering on this model is pretty intense and perhaps not reflective of the weathering you would see on a WWI aircraft, but I'm just feeling my way along, transferring some of my AFV techniques to see what shakes out. It's definitely a learning experience.

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5205_zpsea398d1e.jpg)

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5208_zps76d11f8e.jpg)

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5209_zps63e12e83.jpg)

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5189_zpsed7ff4f0.jpg)

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5188_zps1ee0d6c8.jpg)

Thanks for looking!

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: uncletony on May 03, 2013, 10:28:58 AM: That's looking great Chris. You've got some interesting and convincing material effects going on. Bravo!
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: rhallinger on May 03, 2013, 10:49:25 AM: Well done Chris! I'm looking forward to your additional weathering and assembly of this beauty. :D

Regards,

Bob
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Dave W on May 03, 2013, 11:17:01 AM: Thats looking really good Chris. Once you get past the cockpit tub/ lower wing fit issue and the non-fitting fuselage coaming, it's a fairly straightforward build.

Special kudos to Des who was the first to identify the cockpit tub/ wing fit issue with the Pup and show us the fix on his website.

It's unfortunate that Wingnuts has not alerted modellers to the flaws in its Pup/ Tripe kits. Excellent models but if you did not know of the fit issues, it could sour the build experience.

Fortunately once you get past the problems, the model looks terrific with no evidence of any corrective surgery.

cheers

Dave Wilson
Gold Coast
Australia
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: GAJouette on May 03, 2013, 11:35:22 AM: "Black Prince' may or may not have had a woodgrain coaming section, but for the purposes of my model, it does"
Chris,
I like that! Besides that your wood graining is too well done to cover with PC-10. Awesome job on her weathering my old friend.The paint chipping is outstanding although it's in some locations I wouldn't have thought of. Did you use the salt technique for the chipping or use a liquid masking ? Whatever you've used the end results are superb. Keep up the outstanding progress my old friend I've got a feeling the Tripe is going be be your best yet.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: coyotemagic on May 03, 2013, 12:48:06 PM: Looking fantastic, Chris. I'm gonna have to give the hair spray technique a try. I look forward to how you weather the fabric. I'm planning on doing Donald MacLaren's Camel and, according to all the photos I've seen, it was pretty well beat up. I'll follow your lead on this one.
Cheers,
Bud
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: pepperman42 on May 03, 2013, 10:50:40 PM: Nice work. Your woodwork paint looks more like a real veneer. On the Pup/Tripe floor issue, Ive been quietly working away at my Pup and what I did was glue the floor, unthinned, to the lower wing and with test fitting of the side frames etc and the fuselage sides fitted onto the wing, there doesnt seem to be a gap. It all fits fine. As I say, its all dry fitting so when it comes to glue time I have no options other than filler if a gap arises. We'll see.

Steve
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: RAGIII on May 04, 2013, 11:26:15 AM: Quote from: pepperman42 on May 03, 2013, 10:50:40 PM
Nice work. Your woodwork paint looks more like a real veneer. On the Pup/Tripe floor issue, Ive been quietly working away at my Pup and what I did was glue the floor, unthinned, to the lower wing and with test fitting of the side frames etc and the fuselage sides fitted onto the wing, there doesnt seem to be a gap. It all fits fine. As I say, its all dry fitting so when it comes to glue time I have no options other than filler if a gap arises. We'll see.

Steve

After some work on the tripe I tend to think that assembling the kit per directions doesn't allow one to "seat the floor" properly in the lower wing. Maybe I am wrong but I think your method may work. All in all I am thinning and test fitting. Chris. Looks fantastic so far and I think your weathering is great. As for the tripes themselves it seems they were traded back and forth from Naval Squadron to Squadron. Surely this must have been a maintenance nightmare!
RAGIII
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: kinnies on May 04, 2013, 02:41:45 PM: That wood looks great Chris as does the PC. I also like the fittings on the struts. I have a hell of a time painting those.
Cheers,
John
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Ernie on May 06, 2013, 10:39:02 PM: Great job on your Tripe, Chris. I really like your woodgrain. Was that done with a brush
or sponge or something else? Being new at this, I'm trying to pick-up as much knowledge
as I can from you masters. Thanks for sharing your terrific work!

Best Regards,
Ernie
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Chris Johnson on May 06, 2013, 10:50:47 PM: Quote from: Ernie on May 06, 2013, 10:39:02 PM
Great job on your Tripe, Chris. I really like your woodgrain. Was that done with a brush
or sponge or something else? Being new at this, I'm trying to pick-up as much knowledge
as I can from you masters. Thanks for sharing your terrific work!

I just used a fairly stiff brush Ernie, employing long strokes to represent the grain. I'm no master by any stretch of the imagination. It really is a pretty simple technique so you'll end up with great results almost immediately. I really like it because of its simplicity.

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Chris Johnson on May 10, 2013, 06:08:24 AM: The lower wing is now installed, all of the fuselage decals are applied, and I'm able to test fit the undercarriage and engine to see how they look.

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5217_zpsd7045016.jpg)

As luck would have it, the undercarriage will be fine once I add the rigging and tweak it just a bit to ensure the aircraft sits level. It's pretty darned close as it sits now.

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5222_zps309090c5.jpg)

It was a lucky thing for me that Dave Wilson posted images of his Tripe as it wasn't until I saw those that I realized that I had neglected to apply the 'Lift Here' decals under the serial numbers. Because of the position of the large letter 'A', 'Black Prince' only had one per side, so that helps a bit. Unfortunately, I had already sealed the existing decals in place with a matte coat. My solution was to soak the required decals from the backing paper and shake the water from them. Then I dipped them in Future and applied them to the fuselage. In both instances, I had absolutely no silvering at all. Even with the benefit of a gloss coat in place for decaling, I think I'll use this approach with all clear film decals from this point forward in my future projects.

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5226_zps7aa24b8b.jpg)

I'm currently installing eyelets for the rigging lines and preparing the struts for installation.

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5219_zps3e8c1d58.jpg)

Thanks for dropping by for a look.

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Epeeman on May 10, 2013, 06:39:37 AM: Chris,

That's coming along great. The weather paint effect to the cowling looks very realistic as well.

Regards

Dave
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Dave W on May 10, 2013, 08:01:27 AM: Thats looking really nice Chris and I am delighted to see you have survived the fit issues of the cockpit/ lower wing and the fuselage coaming. The rest of the build should be fairly painless ! :)

cheers

Dave Wilson
Gold Coast
Australia
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: uncletony on May 10, 2013, 08:14:49 AM: That looks great Chris! But weren't the wheel covers made of fabric?
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Chris Johnson on May 10, 2013, 08:35:38 AM: Quote from: Bo Monroe on May 10, 2013, 08:14:49 AM
That looks great Chris! But weren't the wheel covers made of fabric?

You've got a good eye there Bo! See what happens when an AFV modeller is let loose on an airplane?

Dave Wilson brought it to my attention earlier, but as the wheels were already fully assembled, it wouldn't be a simple matter to strip off the layers of paint and redo it.

However, since learning of my mistake, I've seen several images showing the dope chipping away from the canvas covers. That seems reasonable as they would be under stress during landings and while bumping along while taxiing. That being the case, the chipped areas should probably be PC12 instead of silver, but it is what it is! ;D

Cheers,

Chris

P.S. Is it 100% definite that the covers were always made of canvas? Just grasping at straws here guys!
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: pepperman42 on May 10, 2013, 08:40:33 AM: I think with your ability you could carefully sand and repaint........its gunna nag at ya'.......heres me all talk and no build........

Steve
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Chris Johnson on May 10, 2013, 08:43:01 AM: Quote from: pepperman42 on May 10, 2013, 08:40:33 AM
I think with your ability you could carefully sand and repaint........its gunna nag at ya'.......heres me all talk and no build........

Steve

What an astute fellow you are Steve. Since discovering my mistake, it's been preying on me and driving me absolutely around the bend.

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: pepperman42 on May 10, 2013, 08:46:07 AM: Dont ever want to come across as a pr**k as my out put here is zero from the model bench but I know from your past projects that its an easy fix for you.

Steve
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Chris Johnson on May 10, 2013, 08:53:50 AM: Quote from: pepperman42 on May 10, 2013, 08:46:07 AM
Dont ever want to come across as a pr**k as my out put here is zero from the model bench but I know from your past projects that its an easy fix for you.

Steve

No worries Steve. I had a good chuckle when I read your comment because it is nagging the h-e-double hockey sticks out of me!

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: pepperman42 on May 10, 2013, 08:58:52 AM: The only reason I tossed in my two cents is because a while ago I built Trumpys 1/32 Mig 3. My modelling buddys said it was good but needed a bit of weathering. I proceeded to add exhaust,oil and various grime around the l/g. I then did some mild pencil chipping and wearing around the cockpit and wing root. The Mig 3 is - you guessed it - a mostly wooden airplane...............

Steve
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Chris Johnson on May 10, 2013, 09:02:29 AM: Quote from: pepperman42 on May 10, 2013, 08:58:52 AM
The only reason I tossed in my two cents is because a while ago I built Trumpys 1/32 Mig 3. My modelling buddys said it was good but needed a bit of weathering. I proceeded to add exhaust,oil and various grime around the l/g. I then did some mild pencil chipping and wearing around the cockpit and wing root. The Mig 3 is - you guessed it - a mostly wooden airplane...............

Steve

I appreciate any and all comments so don't ever hold fire on something you see that's not right. I make lots of mistakes but if I'm not made aware of them, I won't be able to avoid repeating them.

Now where did I put that belt sander . . .

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: kinnies on May 10, 2013, 09:07:56 AM: Chris, that really looks sharp. I like how you have done the wings and struts and woodwork. The cowling also looks great.Inspiration as I work on Black Maria (which is kinda in limbo at the moment).
John
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: RAGIII on May 10, 2013, 11:52:19 AM: Chris,
Your build is certainly an inspiration for my current work! Your tripe is all I have come to expect from your talented hands!!
RAGIII
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: LindsayT on May 10, 2013, 01:01:27 PM: Chris, the way you paint these things you could make it look like it was cast iron and had a turret and I'd still think it was the best thing I'd ever seen.

Go with what your gut tells you, but I think it looks great.

Lindsay
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Dave W on May 10, 2013, 07:13:17 PM: Chris, I know what it's like to have a small error eat away at you for years on end with a model so here's a suggested fix for the Tripe wheel covers- smear them with mud! :)

Rather than risk damaging that delicate undercarriage assembly by sanding and re-painting, I'm thinking instead you depict the Tripe after it has landed and taxied in on a muddy airstrip on the Western Front.

I recommend the Tamiya weathering compounds and especially their 'mud' which is part of one of the weathering sets which look like ladies eye make up packs! The mud powder s applied with a sponge applicator which gives you a lot of control to dab or smear the mud. I would liberally muddy the wheels and have splashes and spatter on the wheel covers in those areas which suggest metal and leave the rest a blackish hue.

cheers

Dave Wilson
Gold Coast
Australia
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: uncletony on May 10, 2013, 09:51:28 PM: Sorry to have pointed this out, because it probably will drive you insane now :-[

I think Dave's suggestion is great, given that you are doing weathering, a little mud is totally appropriate and should be able to cover the paint chips perfectly without overdoing it.

An alternate approach, if you don't want her dirty, would be to carefully retouch those areas with a slightly different shade of black, which would give the surface a little life...

Or you could say this one was fitted with experimental alloy covers... 8)
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Chris Johnson on May 11, 2013, 12:45:10 AM: Dave and Bo: Thanks for the suggestions and rest assured they're under consideration.

Rick and John: I'm watching your Tripes take shape too. I'll be happy to take station behind and below to your efforts.

As for the rest of you guys, as always, I appreciate your comments and for taking the time to follow my build.

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: coyotemagic on May 11, 2013, 03:28:33 AM: Excellent progress on what will no doubt be a stunning replica of Black Prince, Chris. I think the colors you've chosen are spot on and I can't wait to see her rigged. As for the wheels, if it really bothers you, you could dab some drops of an enamel cdl color with a fine brush over the aluminum spots with the wheels in situ. I like Model Master Modern Desert Sand. Enamels dry slowly and flow smoothly, so it won't look like a touch-up job. Then weather the wheels as you normaly would. Even if you don't do all that, she still looks truly fantastic.
Cheers,
Bud
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Chris Johnson on May 12, 2013, 08:22:21 AM: 'Black Prince' is finally starting to take shape. I seem to spend spend scads of time on all of the detail painting and preparation and then it all just seems to fall together in a matter of days.

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5230_zps0e590c8b.jpg)

I sure do like these cabane struts (if that's what they're called) 100% better than the four flimsy, difficult to align cabanes that seem to be so prevalent on WWI aircraft.

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5229_zpsb7873a7b.jpg)

I've even made a start on rigging the wings, which I plan on doing before the tail.

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: GAJouette on May 12, 2013, 08:36:15 AM: Chris,
She grow more Outstanding with each new update my old friend. Looking forward to seeing the full rigging.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: pepperman42 on May 12, 2013, 09:50:24 AM: Great work Chris. She's shaping up nicely.

Steve
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Des on May 12, 2013, 09:59:32 AM: Really starting to look the part now Chris, you are doing a brilliant job and I look forward to seeing the rigging completed.

Des.
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: michael on May 12, 2013, 06:53:00 PM: Looking awesome Chris :)

i love the different tones you have worked in there.

michael
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: RAGIII on May 13, 2013, 03:22:20 AM: Chris,
Looks fantastic! I told you I wouldn't be close to catching up :D Your level of work is excellent as always!!
RAGIII
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: mgunns on May 13, 2013, 07:18:41 PM: Hello Chris:

I am catching up after a bit of a break. This is coming along nicely. I like the color and the Hair spray technique is indeed convincing. I like Bud's recommendation on the weathering. I finished my Academy/Hobby Craft Camel and am thinking of tackling this guy next. I will be referencing yours and the other builds here for tips. Looking forward to more.

Best

Mark
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Chris Johnson on May 14, 2013, 06:37:46 AM: Thanks again guys for dropping by and leaving your comments. Bit by bit, she definitely is starting to shape up. Now let the rigging begin.

I spent a couple of hours on Sunday getting the lines ready to be run. As usual, I'm using Maxima Chameleon 2lb test monofilament, eyelets made from Nichrome 60 Bare Nickel-Chromium Resistance 36 Gauge wire, and 0.5 mm brass tubing.

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5249_zps529a193f.jpg)

Today, I rigged and painted the wing lines and it all went extremely well. The mounting points are all easily accessible compared to other aircraft I've rigged, so everything was quite painless. The double flying wires even fit perfectly in their mid-wing slots. No wing stagger issues this time around!

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5257-Closeup_zps1b2d7b2d.jpg)

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5260-Closeup_zpsa5fe76c6.jpg)

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5263-Closeup_zps946b0962.jpg)

The lines are painted with Mr. Color Silver lacquer paint.

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5265-Closeup_zpse6a544fe.jpg)

If the weather stays chilly and blustery again tomorrow, I'll tackle the tail rigging.

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: pepperman42 on May 14, 2013, 07:15:25 AM: Thats very fine precision work Chris!! The double wires can be trouble sometimes and they have come out flawlessly!!

Steve
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: uncletony on May 14, 2013, 07:29:25 AM: gorgeous!
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: GAJouette on May 14, 2013, 07:33:44 AM: Chris,
Fantastic rigging to date my old friend. Easily she'll be your best work yet!
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: RAGIII on May 14, 2013, 07:37:41 AM: Chris, Looks fantastic! I am glad you reached the rigging stageas it will help me decide just how to go about doing mine ???
RAGIII
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Dave W on May 14, 2013, 07:53:42 AM: Wow Chris! That is looking fantastic now and the rigging work is exceptional. I'm rigging the other way round- tail first then the rest.

The biggest problem from here on is handling the model without damaging the rigging wires :)

cheers

Dave Wilson
Gold Coast
Australia
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Des on May 14, 2013, 07:59:08 AM: Excellent work on the rigging Chris, your are on the home stretch now.

Des.
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Ernie on May 14, 2013, 09:59:24 AM: Beautiful job, Chris. You've convinced me to order one of
these Tripes. Thankfully I have your build log to help me
along. Couldn't ask for a better tutorial. Thanks for sharing
with us.

Best Regards,
Ernie
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: coyotemagic on May 14, 2013, 10:04:08 AM: Truly outstanding, Chris. This will be one to be proud of.
Cheers,
Bud
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Ian from Doncaster on May 14, 2013, 04:55:48 PM: Lovely work Chris - I need to find some of that wire you use for rigging eyelets! I have used the thin copper wires taken from regular electric cable, but painting that is an issue.

I have the Tripe to build too, but god knows when I'll manage :( At least, I have yours to refer too :) (others too, of course..)
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Chris Johnson on May 14, 2013, 10:55:04 PM: Quote from: Dave W on May 14, 2013, 07:53:42 AM
Wow Chris! That is looking fantastic now and the rigging work is exceptional. I'm rigging the other way round- tail first then the rest.

The biggest problem from here on is handling the model without damaging the rigging wires :)

I debated whether to start at the tail but all of a sudden there I was, working away at the wings. You may well have taken the smarter approach Dave as I'll have to be very mindful of those fuselage bracing lines.

Quote from: Ernie on May 14, 2013, 09:59:24 AM
Beautiful job, Chris. You've convinced me to order one of these Tripes. Thankfully I have your build log to help me
along. Couldn't ask for a better tutorial. Thanks for sharing with us.

By all means, take a crack at this kit Ernie as once you get past the coaming and bottom wing fit issues, it's a really fun build.

Quote from: Ian from Doncaster on May 14, 2013, 04:55:48 PM
Lovely work Chris - I need to find some of that wire you use for rigging eyelets! I have used the thin copper wires taken from regular electric cable, but painting that is an issue.

I sourced my wire at Jacobs Online Ian, which is an eBay store located at:

http://stores.ebay.com/Jacobs-Online

A 250 foot spool of 36 gauge wire cost $10.00 plus shipping. He carries a variety of different gauges and his service is excellent.

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: michael on May 14, 2013, 11:56:40 PM: Lovely work Chris :)

michael
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: RAGIII on May 15, 2013, 03:32:46 AM: Absolutely great work on the rigging! I am impressed as always with your results!
RAGIII
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Chris Johnson on May 16, 2013, 07:30:42 AM: Progress continues as a good clip now. Two cool, wet days kept me indoors so I rigged the tail and undercarriage and added the aileron control lines.

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5275_zps20b1e54a.jpg)

I also took care of those inaccurately chipped canvas wheel covers too. Mind you, I left the inside surfaces of the wheels chipped as they just have to be of metal construction . . . don't they? :-\

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5274-Closeup_zps594fe2af.jpg)

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5281-Closeup_zpsb79d36aa.jpg)

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5280-Closeup_zps6bb65993.jpg)

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5279-Closeup_zpsad2ec072.jpg)

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5283-Closeup_zpsab614f8c.jpg)

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5287-Closeup_zps11b57217.jpg)

At this juncture, I only have some minor corrections to make, and add the engine and cowl.

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Des on May 16, 2013, 07:39:11 AM: Excellent result with all the rigging Chris, she is really looking great now. As far as the wheels go, fabric both sides.

Des.
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: coyotemagic on May 16, 2013, 07:50:18 AM: Oh my, Chris! She is a looker, ain't she! I might have to order one of these, dammit.
Cheers,
Bud
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Dal Gavan on May 16, 2013, 08:07:35 AM: That's just beautiful work, Chris. The rigging is looks great- there's more of it then you first think, isn't there?

Cheers.

Dal.
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: kinnies on May 16, 2013, 08:43:17 AM: Looks great Chris. The rigging is sweet!
John
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: GAJouette on May 16, 2013, 08:55:44 AM: Chris,
As always outstanding update my old friend. Fantastic job on her rigging,
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Chris Johnson on May 16, 2013, 08:56:55 AM: Quote from: Des on May 16, 2013, 07:39:11 AM
Excellent result with all the rigging Chris, she is really looking great now. As far as the wheels go, fabric both sides.

Ah, geez!!!! :-[ :(
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Chris Johnson on May 16, 2013, 09:02:08 AM: Quote from: coyotemagic on May 16, 2013, 07:50:18 AM
Oh my, Chris! She is a looker, ain't she! I might have to order one of these, dammit.

Pull the trigger Bud. You won't be disappointed. We just gotta get you started in 1:32 scale!

Quote from: Dal Gavan on May 16, 2013, 08:07:35 AM
That's just beautiful work, Chris. The rigging is looks great- there's more of it then you first think, isn't there?

You're right about that Dal. I thought there was hardly any at first glance, but I know better now.

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: uncletony on May 16, 2013, 09:39:12 AM: Looks fantastic!
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: pepperman42 on May 16, 2013, 09:41:59 AM: Excellent work Chris. She looks fabulous. I think weathering will take care of the wheel inside covers.

Steve
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Ernie on May 16, 2013, 10:17:25 PM: Looks really good, Chris. Great job!

Best Regards,
Ernie
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Chris Johnson on May 17, 2013, 01:42:35 AM: So, I'm down to the very last part to add to my Tripe. It's the propeller for the Rotherham petrol pump that is mounted to a cabane strut. I carefully left it off until the very last as I just knew I would break it off somehow. I touch it on the propeller shaft with tweezers and . . . PING . . . off it goes into oblivion. I haven't lost a part in years but this one is gone. I sent an e-mail to WnW in hopes of securing a replacement but I'm not holding my breath.

One of you fellows wouldn't have a spare one in your back pocket, would you? I thought not.

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: uncletony on May 17, 2013, 02:51:27 AM: Ouch... trying not to laugh...

I do have a tripe in the stash if you want dimensions etc to fabricate a replacement until the proper part arrives...
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: coyotemagic on May 17, 2013, 03:21:45 AM: Chris, you could probably make a much nicer one by cutting off a little rectangle of pe fret, sand or file to shape then twist the ends just a bit. Drill a hole in the center, slap that baby on and maybe add a nut to the hub just to finish it off. I think it would be more to scale than the kit part. Just a thought.
Cheers,
Bud
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: pepperman42 on May 17, 2013, 05:12:03 AM: If youre stumped do you have that reusable casting material BvB gave a link to? (or any casting material for that matter) I can send mine down the road for you if WNW fails you.

Steve
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Chris Johnson on May 17, 2013, 05:12:43 AM: Quote from: Bo Monroe on May 17, 2013, 02:51:27 AM
Ouch... trying not to laugh...

I do have a tripe in the stash if you want dimensions etc to fabricate a replacement until the proper part arrives...

If it's not too much trouble, I'd appreciate that. Right now I'm just guessing, and I have a habit of guessing too big.

Quote from: coyotemagic on May 17, 2013, 03:21:45 AM
Chris, you could probably make a much nicer one by cutting off a little rectangle of pe fret, sand or file to shape then twist the ends just a bit. Drill a hole in the center, slap that baby on and maybe add a nut to the hub just to finish it off. I think it would be more to scale than the kit part. Just a thought.

Yep, that's what I'm doing Bud. I'm using pop can aluminum though, as I find it easier to work with.

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Chris Johnson on May 17, 2013, 05:14:01 AM: Quote from: pepperman42 on May 17, 2013, 05:12:03 AM
If youre stumped do you have that reusable casting material BvB gave a link to? (or any casting material for that matter) I can send mine down the road for you if WNW fails you.

I don't have any of that but if my handmade propeller fails, I'll be looking you up. ;D

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Ian from Doncaster on May 17, 2013, 05:39:21 AM: Chris this little prop looks very similar to the one used on the WNW Fe2B (Late) under the nascelle. In that kit it is part R26, if you wanted to have a look at the instructions on WNW's site?

Now that Fee kit comes with 2 R sprues for duplication of other parts, but only one R26 is used. Unfortunately, I lost one of mine to the carpet monster so can't help you there, but if anyone else has a Fee with remaining R sprue parts, perhaps they can help?
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Chris Johnson on May 17, 2013, 06:17:20 AM: Hey guys, thanks for all of your suggestions! I've made a replacement from a strip of brass bar I had on hand and it looks the part. Images to follow.

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: uncletony on May 17, 2013, 07:00:46 AM: Bravo! ...in the interim i made these for you, probably too late to be of use, but j.i.c.:

(http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh640/UncleTony1917/file_zpse18990eb.jpg)
(http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh640/UncleTony1917/file_zpsd4d03172.jpg)
(http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh640/UncleTony1917/file_zps7acc1e6b.jpg)
(http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh640/UncleTony1917/70EAE584-DDEE-415F-95F9-D06FAAB47EC4-843-000000EED76D317F_zps12712619.jpg)
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Chris Johnson on May 17, 2013, 07:19:12 AM: Thanks very much Bo! I want to apologize right up front for going ahead and making the propeller before you posted this information. I should've waited for this material or sent you a PM, but all of a sudden, there I was, shaping a piece of brass. As luck would have it, I'm right in the ballpark with the measurements you've provided. It might not look as good as the kit supplied piece, but if WnW do send along a replacement, it'll do until then.

Thanks again Bo for going to all of this effort on my behalf. I hope I can return the favour in the not too distant future.

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: uncletony on May 17, 2013, 08:22:29 AM: No worries at all! Just figured since I shot the pics, might as well post them in case they might be of use. Anyway it was fun ogling the Triplane sprue. I suppose it will be some time before I get to mutilate it.

Glad to hear everything is shaped up and ready for the "completed" hangar. Congrats on a beautiful model.
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: RAGIII on May 17, 2013, 10:29:22 AM: Chris, The rigging continues to impress! I am also a lot more clear on where some of those wires go now than I was before, so thanks! I think about the DR1 and wonder, why all of those support wires :-X
RAGIII
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: uncletony on May 17, 2013, 01:02:13 PM: :) Because the thick cantilever wings on the Dr.1 made bracing wires unnecessary. The prototype didn't even have outboard struts! Quite a concept at the time...
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Chris Johnson on May 17, 2013, 11:16:32 PM: Quote from: RAGIII on May 17, 2013, 10:29:22 AM
Chris, The rigging continues to impress! I am also a lot more clear on where some of those wires go now than I was before, so thanks!

I wasn't sure where the bracing line below attached to the bottom of the fuselage so I discussed it with Dave Wilson who was ahead of me in his build. The image he passed along seems to show it terminating on that little nub protruding from the bottom of the fuselage so that's where I put it.

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5279-Tail_zpse0ee165c.jpg)

I ran both the leading and trailing bracing lines as a single lengths of line from one fuselage locating point to the other, tensioning and gluing each segment where it passed through the tail and fin.

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Chris Johnson on May 18, 2013, 01:31:32 AM: I've taken 'Black Prince' as far as I can so I'm going to close out this build thread with a final shot as she looks now.

(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/Sopwith%20Triplane/DSCN5368_zpsa74bd227.jpg)

For those interested, I'll be showing more images of her over in the 'Completed Models' section.

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: coyotemagic on May 18, 2013, 02:47:52 AM: Congratulations, Chris! She's a stunner. I'm heading over to Completed Models, now.
Cheers,
Bud
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Ernie on May 18, 2013, 08:15:36 AM: Really nice job, Chris. Thanks for sharing the build with us.
Congratulations on a quality model.

Best Regards,
Ernie
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: mgunns on May 18, 2013, 08:49:01 AM: Hello Chris:

In a word: "SWEET!" I have this and the Roden kit with the coveted corrected fuselage and they both will become part of my "Sopwith Collection". Yours is truly outstanding.
Now, if I can only find some USMC markings for it. Where did I put those.........? HMMMMMMMM! :o
Best

Mark
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: pepperman42 on May 18, 2013, 10:36:01 AM: Great work using a number of techniques. Glad it all worked out!!!

Steve
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: RAGIII on May 18, 2013, 01:09:05 PM: Chris,
A beautiful build all around! If mine is Half as good I will be pleased! Thanks for paving the way!!
RAGIII
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: rhallinger on May 18, 2013, 01:36:46 PM: Great Job Chris! A very fine tripe. You really nailed the color and weathering! The rigging work is very crisp as well. Beautiful! ;D

Wow. A drama-free build! I think you've got the hang of it. ;) Well done.

Regards,

Bob
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Trackpad on May 19, 2013, 02:18:17 AM: Well done, Chris. Glad to see that you've got this one in the bag. Excellent work all 'round! ;)
Title: Re: W. M. Alexander's Sopwith Triplane 'Black Prince'
Post by: Pup Cam on May 20, 2013, 05:39:33 AM: A superb model of a lovely aeroplane Chris, very nice indeed.

Quote from: Chris Johnson on May 17, 2013, 11:16:32 PM
I wasn't sure where the bracing line below attached to the bottom of the fuselage so I discussed it with Dave Wilson who was ahead of me in his build.

For your interest .....

The lower bracing attaches to the bottom of the rear tailplane spare attachment tube. This tube is free to slide up and down changing the incidence of the tailplane for aircraft trimming purposes as it does so. The tube includes a worm thread in its centre section which meshes with one that it is free to rotate but not move vertically contained in the "bottle" that you can see between the upper and lower longerons. This is rotated via a looped cable driven by the large handwheel on the starboard side of the cockpit. So, rotating the handwheel causes the tube to move up and down and with it the tailplane thus adjusting the aircraft trim. The important thing to note is that the rear bracing is mounted to the tube and not directly to the airframe so that the bracing tension remains correct as the tailplane moves.

Fascinating things these aeroplanes!

It's not an issue for your model of course, it's just that I was thinking of making a working trim adjuster on my 1/3 scale version at one point but decided that was a step too far!

Alan