Billy Bishop's colourful 60Sqdn SE5 A8936

[macsporran]

I have long loved the fabulous Flight markings of the early 60 Squadron SE5s when they first arrived in France. The three Flights A, B & C had their noses etc painted in red, yellow or blue respectively and would make  excellent subjects for a model - except for one major problem: these aircraft were SE5 not SE5a types with a very obviously different nose profile and to begin with tapered wings and stub exhausts etc.

This hasn't stopped various manufacturers issuing these colours on SE5a models/prints/profiles - which is just WRONG!
Eg Corgi with their die cast toys. No this is as bad as painting an Albatros D.III in a D.V or D.Va scheme.

So the major problem is there is no available 1/32 SE5 kit. Only 3 prototypes (A4561-3) and a batch of 24 (A4845-68), followed by a final batch of 50 (A8898-8947) were ever built and surviving SE5s were usually retro-fitted with the later blunt wings of the 5a and often up-engined to more powerful Suiza or Wolseley power-plants which necessitated adding the heavy chin of the 5a as well. So you can well understand manufacturers balking at producing a kit of an early SE5 when so few retained the slim nose profile. Unfortunately though the beautiful 60Sqdn markings need just such a kit.

Many years ago, (at school IIRC) I hacked and sawed a 1/48 Lindberg SE5a into the approximation of an SE5 and hand painted it in the flambouyant col,ours of Keith Caldwell's A8898 but for a long time now I've had the lovely Model Cellar Billy Bishop figure and a hacked up Roden SE5a sitting on the shelf of doom. Now I'm in the mood to try to resume this with a view to producing A8936 as shown in the nice, fairly accurate painting below. While still wearing the blue paint, this machine had the blunt 5a wings added and is shown in pictures with long exhausts - so this is what I am aiming for.

I have started this before, so no guarantees about finishing, but we'll see how we get on!
Sandy

[macsporran]

I'd previously cut away the 5a chin but given up thereafter when I contemplated the size of the job ahead - not just the nasal mods, but planning the masking for painting the complex blue, white and PC10 around the surgery.

My immediate task was to form the distinctive horseshoe radiator for the early 150hp Hispano Suiza powerplant. Variations exist and there is no picture to identify A8936 in particular but I have opted for the same radiator as fitted to Albert Ball's A4850.

It so happens the Roden kit I am using has a Wolseley Viper but this doesn't matter as this will be hacked about considerably (and hidden anyway). So lets get the Wolseley rad carved to H-S format and manufacture a new insert from card stock and some grill material I have (left over from building 1/24 F1 cars.)

Sandy

[Davos522]

Neat project, Sandy, pulling up a seat for this one! Always fascinated by these aeroplanes.... when I was doing Eric Hight's website back in the day (late '90s?) I got to keep the CSM 1:48 S.E.5 kit after photographing and posting it online, and gave serious thought to starting it... there was something about that steampunk greenhouse that really appealed to me, even knowing the pilots tore them off as soon as none of the brass were looking...

Dutch

[Mike Norris (UK)]

Hi Sandy,
Do you have access to the SE5 Windsock data file No.30?

Mike

[macsporran]

Thanks Mike - yes I have that DF and the SE Squadrons one. I've also got the comprehensive Air-Britain File, the Haynes manual and many and various titles by Crowood, Putnam, Osprey, FMP, Jane's etc - I'm kinda obsessed by the SE5/5a, which is why I get so exercised when illustrators, manufacturers etc mix them up! 

[PrzemoL]

This will be a project to follow.

[NigelR]

A fantastic project and a somewhat daunting one in my eyes! Great start here, following with interest.....

[Mike Norris (UK)]

Thanks Mike - yes I have that DF and the SE Squadrons one. I've also got the comprehensive Air-Britain File, the Haynes manual and many and various titles by Crowood, Putnam, Osprey, FMP, Jane's etc - I'm kinda obsessed by the SE5/5a, which is why I get so exercised when illustrators, manufacturers etc mix them up! 

Hmmmm - I think you've got it covered then 

Mike

[macsporran]

Thanks everybody, for your interest.

Looking again closely at a slightly clearer picture of A8936 in the 60Sqdn book (p65) in Osprey's Elite Units series, louvres are clearly in evidence over the radiator and short stub exhausts were fitted, in July 1917 (as depicted in the painting above). So I'm going to use this as my main ref photo/configuration.

Now to ponder best way of making the louvres.
Sandy

[KiwiZac]

Daunting but fascinating. I'm excited to follow along! All the best Sandy, you've made an excellent start.

[AngryJazz]

Wow what a project! And good progress already 

[lone modeller]

Missed this! I do love to see a kit being saw up and re-assembled into something different! You have a real task there but I am certain that you are well up to it - and remember filler can hide a multitude of sins! (Guess how I know?)

Stephen.

[macsporran]

Thanks, chaps.

After a bit of faffing about with various bit of contoured styrene, I decided it was going to be no harder to construct the louvre apparatus out of strip and rod stock from scratch. So some double sided sticky tape was laid on an old yogurt pot to give me something of a decent size to work and the 11 louvre components attached. Actually getting these equally spaced but not jammed together was a real pain, but eventually I was happy with the result and some liquid extra thin was applied.

The louvre blocks were cut to size - a row of three narrow, 5 mid and 3 wide, then some extremely thin rod stock was applied vertically to replicate the connecting strips. These should be flat but I have had to compromise here for the sake of my sanity - many of the master modellers here may be appalled at my compromise, (and William would probably ace it in 1/144th!) - but I'm not aiming for a Telford-winning model here, there will likely be other compromises later. (The louvres would be ideally formed on a PE brass sheet, but I don't have the facility to do a Harry Woodman on that one.

Anyway, once cut to shape, the item was carefully peeled from double tape backing and tried in place on the radiator to see if it worked. It's a little uneven in the pic, but all will be squared off when properly attached after painting.
Well, I'm happy enough with the result.
Sandy

[NigelR]

It looks pretty convincing to me, very nice work Sandy.

[lcarroll]

   Nicely done Sandy, great to watch some good old fashioned scratch building / improvisation / success coming into play.
   Wonderful project!
Cheers,
Lance