Scale Modeling versus Kit Assembling

[WarrenD]

An earlier post today featuring Jim Landon's beautiful Salmson along with some recent posts of new products got me to thinking about something again that has been brought up elsewhere and I was wondering what the thoughts were of the community here.

At what point do we cease to be scale modelers and become mere kit assemblers?  At what point do we let someone else do our work for us in the form of turnbuckles, decals, seatbelts, valve springs, etc., etc. Do not misunderstand me, I'm not pointing an accusing finger at any modeler or manufacturer at all, nothing of the sort. However, I remember this came up once a few years ago when an aftermarket item came out, and I thought it fell into the "letting someone else do it for you" camp. A modeling friend pointed out to me that at one time he had to hand paint ALL of his markings on his a/c because at that time, and in his country, no decals were available. His comment really got me to thinking about this. Where do we, or where do you draw the line?  At what point would you sit there and say "no" to an item feeling that you should do that yourself?

I freely confess to being a "kit assembler" and not a very good one at that. I'd love to be a "real" modeler, but I'm not sure I have the time and talent/skill to develop into one.

Warren

[rhallinger]

Your points are interesting Warren.  I guess it depends on one's personal goals.  Jim Landon's Salmson is indeed beautiful and an impressive achievement, but I believe he stated that it took four years to complete.  That's fine if you are satisfied simply with the joy and achievement of the building process and/or are only interested in a few aircraft models.  On the other hand, if you want a collection of many aircraft types, time would probably not allow such dedication to detail and original fabrication.

Time is the real rub, I believe.  I am sure I could, with enough practice, successfully make spoked wheels in 1/32 by one of the methods described on this forum.  However, the time saved by buying completed wheels from the new vendor posting here will be a big time savings for me.  My enjoyment comes from building, whether kits or from scratch, but I still want a collection of representative aircraft to view and enjoy also.  I like to enjoy both kits and building from scratch for types I cannot get in kit form.  I guess I don't worry too much about the philosophical end of the hobby---I think we are creating something, whether it is assembling, detailing and painting a kit, or building from raw materials.  A beautiful kit, left in the box, is really nothing more than a set of raw materials until someone applies effort, skill and inspiration to covert those raw materials to an attractive model of an aeroplane. 

Having said that, I have great respect for the skills and talents of modelers like Jim Landon, Des, Ron K and others here who can create beautiful models without a kit.  I think that much of the enjoyment in scratch building comes from puzzling out the steps and solving problems of fabrication.  We can learn much from the scratch build logs. 

Ultimately, it comes down to whatever satisfies each of us, and helps us enjoy the hobby.  That's different for each of us.  I must add, however, that for me, the sharing, learning and comaraderie of this forum make the modeling all the more enjoyable!   

Interesting topic Warren!

Regards,

Bob

[uncletony]

The Taurus D.III intake nuts come to mind. This is a part that I think I could do a semi respectable effort duplicating, with great effort (probably copying Keith G.'s method) but it doesn't seem at all fun and I know my result would pale in comparison to the beautiful resin castings. It's a small detail, but very characteristic of the motor. It's a no brainer -- I ordered a set yesterday.

One thing is for certain -- rapid manufacturing techniques (so-called "3D printing" as we'll as a host of other technologies) are going to sweep over this hobby like a tidal wave in the next few years. The new 3D turnbuckles are a harbinger of this. I predict we will be awash in AMS parts choices like never before. Personally, I think this is great thing, but change can be scary...

[Ian from Doncaster]

I believe that as soon as you put a drop of paint on the model the slider from kit assembly to modelling begins to move.  Components still need tidying up with sprue gate removal, gap filling, sanding etc.  Decals need to be placed correctly by the modeller/assembler, and of course in this genre there is the rigging.

We all have varying degrees of modelling skills, some on here can scratchbuild to museum quality, and I find that inspirational.  At my level, I am happy to rig, and to attempt a few scratchbuilt details or replacement parts and to try different painting and weathering techniques.

What I do like, especially on here, is the encouragement given by each member to others, there is no divide between those with craftsman level skills and those (like me) at the amateur end, in terms of attitude to the hobby and inclusion.

Much of the satisfaction is in the build process as much as the finished article.  I guess we all like to be challenged with a kit/build.  Although WNW kits are deliberately designed that lesser experienced modellers can do a decent job with them, I do find them challenging but also forgiving.

[WarrenD]

Great points and posts, thanks all. As y'all have said: it all comes down to what each of us finds satisfying I suppose. As Bo said, there are some items I could make, but the amount of time combined with the sheer boredom of some processes makes me go for something else. Painting lozenge camo in 1/72nd comes to mind. I've seen some do it, and actually say there's a comforting zen to it, however doing so would put me in the nut house.
Which brings this thread to two other questions:

1) Who are we doing all of this for?  I think I'm safe in saying that all of us like and even desire the approval of our fellow modelers on this list and/or other forums. However, aside from that, and aside from pleasing ourselves, who are we doing this for?  I'm sure there are some on here that build with a contest in mind. Aside from a contest, or those that might take their kit to be displayed at a LHS, etc. about the only other folks that will see the fruit of our efforts will be family and a few close friends.

2) As Ian mentioned, there is a lot of encouragement on here, and that's a great thing. However, I know a lot of us are very hesitant to point out a mistake, or some other aspect that could stand improvement. I know I'm certainly hesitant to do so, especially since my efforts at this hobby yield almost no fruit and certainly none worthy of consumption on here or any other forum. However, I think most of us would agree that good, healthy criticism will help us all improve, I know it will help me. Do y'all think that at times we're a little too easy on our fellow modelers in this respect?

[uncletony]

IMO the tone here is perfect. I'd hate to see anything that discourages folks from posting their work. I think most people can read between the lines of the positive comments to grok what parts of their build aren't going over quite as well with the teeming masses.

[lcarroll]

Warren,
   Great topic and questions!
   My version is as follows:
#1  I draw the line on A/M additions where they no longer inprove or add to the realism of the Build. For example, a lot of Photo Etch stuff adds incredible realism to a model however the two dimensional nature of the medium detracts in many cases. If I can't add the third dimension to the PE Part I don't use it, rather I go the scratch built route. I also take the best result approach; I hand carve most of my own props simply because thety look more "real" (at least in my eyes) Same for instrument panels where I build them up on my own and use A/M components and decals as I think they look more "real". I guess what I'm saying is as long as it adds to the realism of the model and is beyond MY ability to produce, I'll use it (if I can afford it)

#2 (Who do we do this for?) The support, approval, compliments etc of my contemporaries here and elsewhere add a lot to the pleasure we all derive from the hobby and I'm no exception. In the end I do it for me; I totally enjoy looking over my little collection, and find my time at the bench as well as on-line/in the books researching tremendously relaxing and enjoyable. Here'a question though......how many of you think about where you want your stuff to go when you fade away? I've got some thoughts on that for another thread in future.

#3 (are we too easy on fellow Modellers?) I am for sure. I totally respect the inputs and products of everyone here; respect and kindness is the spirit here and I for one am too "gentle" for fear of jeapardizing that. I guess it's the old adage "if you can't say something nice then say nothing at all"! It's a bit unlike me however I truly value what we have here, and I'll bet I'm not alone!?! I know I've posted things that were in error, and certainly stuff that falls well below the quality of others submissions. Not once have I felt chastised or embarrassed however lots of CONSTRUCTIVE comments have been gladly recieved.

Great topic and questions.
Cheers,
Lance

[Jamo]

Interesting discussion. I think constructive criticism can be valuable learning but only if welcomed explicitly. And on that point if any of us are open to constructive suggestions we should say so, and take the discussion to the next level. Without that, comments are just 'attaboy' stuff, which is OK for encouragement and support, but misses the opportunity to build skills and lift enjoyment.

[IanB]

Great subject and some very thoughtful replies!
 Personally I would say that an "assembler" simply does that, with no checking of details, dimensions at all, (where I was about 2 years ago), whereas a modeller will make an effort to improve the kit if necessary, by whatever means (scratchbuilding, PE etc) and trying to produce a "miniature replica" to whatever standards he or she works to.
 I only build in 1:72 and there are some who put in detail I would neither dream of, nor be capable of. Some of that is over and above what I personally feel is necessary, but I still welcome, indeed look forward to, positive feedback and suggestions on how to improve my work. I certainly enjoy reading positive comments about my work, it lets me know I'm on the right track... but at the same time I appreciate any constructive criticism that will enable me to improve my next effort.

Ian

[WarrenD]

Thanks for all of your responses everyone. I was very, very hesitant to start this thread for fear of being piled on as a "blue meanie". It's just a hobby, granted, and right now I have a headache from looking through a magnifier and trying to drill holes for pushrods and an ignition harness for an off-topic radial engine in 1/72nd scale.    The tmep outside is in the teens (F), so I think it's time for a hot-buttered rum.

Warren

[rhallinger]

That hot-buttered rum sounds like an excellent choice Warren!  Yet another way to enhance the hobby.

I tend to agree that we go easy on criticism here, but on balance I think that is a good thing.  We all know the weaknesses in our techniques and flaws in our models, so I think we probably don't need to have them pointed out.  However, sometimes we just forget or miss something, and the reminder/query can be helpful.  Also, if something doesn't look quite right, sometimes a question about the technique employed can lead to helpful suggestions on alternate ways to achieve a particular objective, e.g., woodgrain finish, Fokker streaking or rib shading.  I have learned so much, and I believe have much improved my modeling, just from asking questions and hearing about different techniques here in the last 10 months.

Sometimes we also make personal choices about models.  Chris Johnson noted today over in Completed Models that he left the MG on the observer's cockpit of his LVG, even though it wasn't supposed to be there on the prototype, simply because he thought it added interest and looked cool.  I applaud that choice, and agree that it looks great!  I also appreciate that nobody has yet pointed out that I did not modify the cockpit opening on my WNW Pup night trainer per Pheon's instructions.  This was a personal strategic choice, since I was building the model for my adult daughter, who didn't really care about this detail, and I wanted to finish the build as quickly as possible to get back to my 2-seater Group Build project.  I don't think that the "incorrect" cockpit opening detracts at all from the overall impression of the model.  However, that's a personal choice I can live with.  I know there are other items on a given model that would drive me crazy just knowing they were there, even if nobody else noticed.

In any event, I appreciate the absence of nitpicking on this forum.  There seems to be a sensitivity here to helping people improve there skills and sharing information and helpful hints in a positive way.  I think Uncle Tony got it right--the tone here is good, and we can all read between the lines pretty well. 

I find it so interesting that many folks arrive here with the same general story (like me): built WWI aircraft models as a kid, went through a decades-long modeling hiatus with young adulthood, marriage, family and/or career, and are now returning to the hobby.  The friendly encouragement of this forum is such a help in that situation, and I truly appreciae it.

Well, I've rambled on long enough.  Happy modeling my friends!

Regards,

Bob

[GAJouette]

  Warren,
Blue Meanie,now that dating yourself my old friend. Been watching Yellow Submarine on DVD lately. But seriously I really believe there's no need to worry about starting a thread like this one especially with our excellent membership. I'm impressed with all the outstanding replies which show again and again just how tight we are even when we have differing opinions.

 To add to the discussion I like to add whether you consider yourself an assembler or modeler really doen't matter. After it's all said and done this hobby of ours is about having fun first and foremost everything else is secondary. To Bob's point, I believe as a whole everyone here practises whether realizing it or not a sort of modeler version of "The Golden Rule". Personally I can't think of a better way to operate myself.

Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette

[Chris Johnson]

Encouragement means a lot to me. I don't have the artistic talent, dexterity, or patience to achieve much of what is on display here, but I like to give it the old college try. If it doesn't work out, I'll be telling you all about it and showing you the proof in the images. I have a thick hide so if someone wants to offer constructive criticism, I welcome it but it has to be from those who also build models and post them for all to see.

I'll happily take praise from anyone who wants to give it (who wouldn't!) but if you want to criticize what I've done, you better have the sand to display your work too. That's what I like about this forum. The guys who offer me suggestions for improvement also post their models for all to see, so I know they're builders, and not the know-it-alls who populate so many other forums, but never show their work.

The great thing about this forum is that there's room for both the assembler and master modeller because the membership that has gravitated here is free from the arrogance, rudeness, and bad manners so prevalent on other forums. Lets keep it that way.

Cheers,

Chris

[uncletony]

The great thing about this forum is that there's room for both the assembler and master modeller because the membership that has gravitated here is free from the arrogance, rudeness, and bad manners so prevalent on other forums. Lets keep it that way.

Yes please, +1

In marketing there is something called the "platinum rule" -- treat others the way they wish to be treated -- but this requires mind reading abilities most of us do not possess. Therefore, let's stick with the golden rule as Gregory suggests. 

[Modelnut]

My phylosophy is just do it to your best ability til it ain't fun no more.