forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Scratch builds => Topic started by: Borsos on February 26, 2016, 06:42:23 PM
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Hello,
waiting for some aftermarket parts to finish my Albatros C. III, I started my new project. It's quite a long time that I wanted a Maurice Farman, because it is one of the most important aircraft in the French WWI-airforce and was widely used at Verdun 1916, but there are no kits in 1/48 as far as I know. So there was only one solution: scratchbuilding. Sadly there are no books covering the MF 11 in debth, no datafile and no printed scale plans. But I found many pictures and drawings of the MF 11 on the internet, mainly of the classic MF 11 "Shorthorn" variant. I even got some old but prettily done scale plans from a magazine from the 1960ies in my hands. Davila and Soltan, French Aircraft of the First World War offer some scale plans too.
Although the MF 11 seems to be used well into 1916 (by MF 72 for example), I wanted to build the upgraded version of this airplane, the MF 11 bis, equipped with a modernized fuselage. It had something like a visor at the front of the nacelle and pilot and observer had changed places: The observer sat at the front and managed the machine gun: a more modern configuration for 1916 times. Going deeper into research of MF variants, I realized that the devil lies in the detail here too: There were more than 60 differences of the MF. 7, MF 11 and F 40 versions, I read. Oh my god...
They used different engines in the MF 11 and the MF 11 bis, a Renault V8 and a Renault V12. I had no scale plans for the V12, just for the V8... Some plans showed the fuselage with the V12 being longer than the one with a V8, which seems to be quite logical. Other drawings showed an "upgraded" MF 11 with visor but as short as the MF 11 fuselage and equipped with a V8. The dimensions of the planes were the same as well. Finaly I found out, that such versions actually existed – MF 11s with visors. So I decided to go with that. And in fact, I was lucky to find a picture of a MF 11 equipped with a Renault V8 engine AND a visor on Denis Albins much praised homepage. And I even had a serial number! This machine flew with escadrille MF 2 in April 1916 at the Verdun-front: MF 11 no 1338. That's all I wanted. So I could start without going too deep in the mentioned 60 differences, which maybe might have scared off kitmakers and authors too. Taking a close look at the picture it is obvious that this very machine had a Renault V8 engine (so it is a MF 11, not a MF 11 bis) and comparing the dimensions (including the different angle, the pic was taken) I'm convinced that it had the normal MF11-dimensions. If you are better informed than I am, please correct me (and please do it BEFORE I finish that model ;) )
So here's the picture, taken from http://albindenis.free.fr/Site_escadrille/escadrille002.htm
(http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p640/borsos/002_MF11bis_1338_GT_zpssxj2itmt.jpg) (http://s1159.photobucket.com/user/borsos/media/002_MF11bis_1338_GT_zpssxj2itmt.jpg.html)
(If you take a close look at the engine, you can see the four cylinders. If it were a MF 11 bis, it should have six cylinders on each side...)
I deciced to start with the engine because I was a little frightened of scratchbuilding an engine. Please don't be too critical, it is my first try and it is not finished yet...
(http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p640/borsos/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps3u5czfqw.jpeg) (http://s1159.photobucket.com/user/borsos/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps3u5czfqw.jpeg.html)
(http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p640/borsos/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsbifi9rtd.jpeg) (http://s1159.photobucket.com/user/borsos/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsbifi9rtd.jpeg.html)
(http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p640/borsos/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpswggq3snw.jpeg) (http://s1159.photobucket.com/user/borsos/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpswggq3snw.jpeg.html)
Next step was the planes. Here I added 1mm brass rod to prevent the planes from sagging. I made two parts of each wing, sandwiched them with the brass rod in between (I carved a chamfer for it before) and taped them onto a poster tube to receive curved wings when the clue cured. I'll post some images later (when it worked...), I'll leave that taped wings for a week or so to set.
Best wishes
Borsos
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Just perfect ! amazing , your project is amazing!
Xan
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Great engine,a ring side seat for me please.
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http://www.mmpbooks.biz/ksiazki/302
This link is for part two, but you can buy part one and there is a lot of the pictures and drawings form beginning of the WWI in Russia.
I'm not sure but there ought to be interesting you pictures of this plane in Russia service.
Adam.
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Fascinating project Borsos, and your engine looks great! ;D I'll follow along closely, as I would like to build one of these in 1/32 some day. I am confidant that you will do a fine job with this model.
Regards,
Bob
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Having struggled with an MF 7 I totally sympathise with your problems concerning specific detail. It seemed that every source I consulted had different information about the type so I settled in the end for single source and used modellers license when I was not certain.
I have grabbed a front row seat for this as it is going to be a first class model if that engine is anything to go by - certainly no criticism from this quarter.
Stephen.
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You have done a great job with the engine Borsos, looking forward to following along with your build.
Des.
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Very wonderful engine.
Cheers
Martin
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Incredible work on your engine Borsos! I am watching with great interest as this one moves forward!
RAGIII
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thank you all guys! :)
I got a little further with the farman. I made some wings now:
(http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p640/borsos/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpstgooufit.jpeg) (http://s1159.photobucket.com/user/borsos/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpstgooufit.jpeg.html)
(http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p640/borsos/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsakro6e5s.jpeg) (http://s1159.photobucket.com/user/borsos/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsakro6e5s.jpeg.html)
It's 0,75mm plasticcard doubled and a brass rod sandwiched between. It still needs some sanding but the wings are straight (still... )
The ribs come next. Last time I used evergreen strips, but I think this time I'll use thick decal paper (the ribs on farmans are no really prominent if you look at photos of surviving examples).
Now I needed a nacelle:
(http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p640/borsos/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpstiofqxie.jpeg) (http://s1159.photobucket.com/user/borsos/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpstiofqxie.jpeg.html)
Balsa wood, tinted with a pen and some drops of carpenter glue (it's almost too much, less would have been better...)
(http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p640/borsos/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps3iyplqur.jpeg) (http://s1159.photobucket.com/user/borsos/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps3iyplqur.jpeg.html)
(http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p640/borsos/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsgreabzdx.jpeg) (http://s1159.photobucket.com/user/borsos/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsgreabzdx.jpeg.html)
(http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p640/borsos/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpshaq5acgq.jpeg) (http://s1159.photobucket.com/user/borsos/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpshaq5acgq.jpeg.html)
(http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p640/borsos/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsg7ih7vo5.jpeg) (http://s1159.photobucket.com/user/borsos/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsg7ih7vo5.jpeg.html)
Cutting and sanding the outlines (a scroll saw works fine with that). Then the two halves get split again. I hope the black center line is visible. that's important to keep things symmentical.
And the vacuforming procedure:
(http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p640/borsos/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsrlmuxxqv.jpeg) (http://s1159.photobucket.com/user/borsos/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsrlmuxxqv.jpeg.html)
(http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p640/borsos/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsoyttj9cw.jpeg) (http://s1159.photobucket.com/user/borsos/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsoyttj9cw.jpeg.html)
Let's add some heat ... hot air blower, oven or a dragon works fine too ... but you should use a young animal...
(http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p640/borsos/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsyu6omnli.jpeg) (http://s1159.photobucket.com/user/borsos/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsyu6omnli.jpeg.html)
... and "slurp" makes the vacuum cleaner... That's how it should look like.
(http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p640/borsos/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpskadvsmbq.jpeg) (http://s1159.photobucket.com/user/borsos/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpskadvsmbq.jpeg.html)
That's the backside of the whole affair. It is important to add some mm height before taping the masters onto the vacuumbox.
(http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p640/borsos/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsxhvn9cgj.jpeg) (http://s1159.photobucket.com/user/borsos/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsxhvn9cgj.jpeg.html)
(http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p640/borsos/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsbbydgeoq.jpeg) (http://s1159.photobucket.com/user/borsos/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsbbydgeoq.jpeg.html)
It starts to look like a farman... but there's still much to do...
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Adam,
thank you for the book recommendation! Did you have the opportunity to have a look inside? As far as I know, the Russians used many Henri Farmans but no MF 11 (at least thiy type seems to have been not very common there...)
Best wishes
Borsos
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incredible!!!
I'm very jalous....
you are not a modelers you are wizard!
Xan
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I am very impressed with your abilities to scratch build all of these components! Your carving and vac forming are outstanding examples of Modeling at its best!
RAGIII
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Very nicely done. That nacelle has come out beautifully! Does hollowing out the master make the plastic separate itself around the edges, or have you already cut the openings at the top edge?
Ian
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Hi Ian,
yes, I cut the openings. Hollowing out the masters does not bring the plastic to separate itself. For the vacuforming process it is superfluous at all, I did it because I wanted to see the overall appearance of the masters, if they looked like the nacelle. The same is true for the visor. I'll cut the front part of the nacelle about 5mm over the nacelle's floor and vacuform the visor as a separate part (like on the original plane). But I added it when sanding the masters for comparison.
Borsos
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I am very impressed with your abilities to scratch build all of these components! Your carving and vac forming are outstanding examples of Modeling at its best!
RAGIII
I agree with my amigo, Borsos! Magnificent work!
Cheers,
Bud
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Excellent modelling here. Those wings and elevator look first class and the nacelle is just right too. This really is worth following closely - much to learn.
Stephen.
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Beautiful work on the wings and the nacelle, this is shaping up to be an excellent model.
Des.
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Wow! Spectacular workmanship. The vac nacelle looks great! When it comes to the engine it`s extremely neat and clean.
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Thank you so much, guys! Your kind words are really encouraging! :)
Just a little update from me: I made a new visor, two seats and a fuel tank (which looks huge on the pic, but fits the nacelle quite well...)
(http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p640/borsos/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps7t1csvhu.jpeg) (http://s1159.photobucket.com/user/borsos/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps7t1csvhu.jpeg.html)
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Very nice job on your farman.the best books for plans are the flying machines press books .the davilla French book and imperial Russian books.they have virtually all popular plans.
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Some minor update from me. The wings...
(http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p640/borsos/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsnqemi4vf.jpeg) (http://s1159.photobucket.com/user/borsos/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsnqemi4vf.jpeg.html)
and the nacelle...
(http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p640/borsos/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps6l9c3h8m.jpeg) (http://s1159.photobucket.com/user/borsos/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps6l9c3h8m.jpeg.html)
(http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p640/borsos/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsuhrcae3m.jpeg) (http://s1159.photobucket.com/user/borsos/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsuhrcae3m.jpeg.html)
Regards
Borsos
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Spectacular work, Borsos!
Cheers,
Bud
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The wings look spectacular and the nacelle framing is superb.
Des.
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Spectacular work, Borsos!
Cheers,
Bud
What my Amigo said and then some!
RAGIII
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Outstanding, Bravo!
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Wouauw! birth if a magic model!
very good job !
Xan
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Exellent work.
Cheers
Martin
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Hello,
thank you all for your encouraging words! You are really kind!
A little update from my side:
(http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p640/borsos/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsmffc040g.jpeg) (http://s1159.photobucket.com/user/borsos/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsmffc040g.jpeg.html)
I soldered a tail boom which was not half as difficult as I was afraid of. Sadly then I run out of the propper brass rod for the second one. This one will be the difficult one for it must be 100% symmetrical to the first one.
(http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p640/borsos/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps6dlvt2wo.jpeg) (http://s1159.photobucket.com/user/borsos/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps6dlvt2wo.jpeg.html)
I made some minor progress on the nacelle too...
(http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p640/borsos/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsrxigxhko.jpeg) (http://s1159.photobucket.com/user/borsos/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsrxigxhko.jpeg.html)
... and made resin copies of proper wheels (from eduards Nieuport 11/16 kit. Because I'm not good at resin casting and it can be an expensive issue when it comes to the price of the silicone, I prefer using some weekend-editions as spare-parts sources. But the Nieuport 11/16 kit is not available at the moment and because I need 4 wheels for my MF 11 I didn't want to plunder two kits.).
Well, now it would be like a normal kit built.
And then I had to realize that the only son of my mother is an IDIOT: I was really happy to have the wings as smooth as I wanted them (which took several steps of Mr. Surfacer, sanding, polishing, finding faults, Mr. Surfacer again... sanding... I did that on several frustrating evenings) and it was all done in vain: I then had to accept that I relied too much on my scale plans of the MF 11 and didn't check the pics of my original plane that I wanted to portray: These wings had a curved cutout at the rear, not a rectangular one like I made for my wings. DOUH!!!!! >:( >:(
Now I need a break from that project. I have to finish my Albatros C III and ther are some 1/32 kits that detract me from this MF. It will be better when I leave it for a while and then to get back with fresh energy. I'll make the best of it, add some plastic for curved wingtips after I installed the roots for the tail booms, and go on finishing that. I went to far and I like the MF 11 too much to drop that project. But now I need a break.
Borsos
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I don't understand very well the problem.
Anyway take your brake, but after please go on with this splendid project.
I 'm just jealous with the way you did wrong wings!
Xan
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Het borsos!
I just discovered this post: you are doing magic!!
Wow!
ciao
edo
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Your wings are beautifully done. Too bad about the slight error! Is there a way to use what you have and make the correction or do you need to make completely new wings?
RAGIII
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I think you have done a brilliant job so far.Have a rest then a couple of little inserts to the wings to get the correct shape should return your mojo in this project!
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Hello,
and again Thank you very much!
Yes, I'll give the old wings a try and insert some plastic to make them round. Probabely I'll have to redo some ribs, but I hope it will be ok in the end.
Best wishes to you all!
Borsos
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Oh the wing shape problem…. been there, done that…several times. I said in an earlier post that I had problems with the differences in the MF 7 - I am sure that you can salvage those wings. At least I sincerely hope that you can because this is an excellent project so far.
Stephen.
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I'll second Stephen's comments. Excellent!
Chris
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i very much like your work so far.yes take a break if you need. but i do hope not very long. i really like this build.
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Wow, amazing build!
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Brilliant work so far Borsos, this is real modelling you're doing! Take the break you mentioned, it's always good to get away and then a fresh start makes things look much better. :)
Cheers,
Lance
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Excellent work so far Borsos, looking forward to seeing more.
Des.