forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
The WW1 modelers' reference library => Aircraft => Topic started by: Jamo on May 11, 2013, 03:15:06 PM
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Found these while browsing on the net
http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/instrumente/katalog%201WK/geratetafeln/fokker/fokker%20d%20VII-3/Fokker_D_VII.htm
(http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/instrumente/katalog%201WK/geratetafeln/fokker/fokker%20d%20VII-3/GripFokker.jpg)
(http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/instrumente/katalog%201WK/geratetafeln/fokker/fokker%20d%20VII-3/Fokker%20Reflexvisier.jpg)
(http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/instrumente/katalog%201WK/geratetafeln/fokker/fokker%20d%20VII-3/Fokker_D_VII%20Kopie.jpg)
The website notes airspeed indicator and clock are not standard fittings
(http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/instrumente/katalog%201WK/geratetafeln/fokker/fokker%20d%20VII-3/Fokker_D_VII-2.JPG)
(http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/instrumente/katalog%201WK/geratetafeln/fokker/fokker%20d%20VII-3/Fokker_D_VII-3.JPG)
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Nice finds, thanks for pinning it!
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Great stuff. Im amazed, on the first period photo, how distinct the edges are on the rib tapes.
Steve
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Nice pics
Top one is an OAW DVII of course. :)
But the other B&W pic has me scratching my head as to what it actually is, Exhaust is different and the cowlings. Plus what looks like the cooling pipework rising up to the upper wing??? Looks like a DVII fuselage, It has the cabanes like a DVI Ibut other than that I'm stumped. Possibly a post war mod? The maxims have stiffening ribs on the covers, the control cables exit the fuselage slightly differently too. Access doors open upwards... more I look the more oddities I see.
Great to share with us, the repro OAW cockpit section colour pics give a few insights to things too.
Keith
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I was also interested to see the mirror. I don't know how common these were on WWI aircraft but it makes sense to have one. I can't say I've ever seen one on a model either (in my limited experience) so I'm delighted to be educated!
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James,
Thanks very much for posting these great photos my old friend. Outstanding details too. I do have a few questions concerning the third B/W photo though. I noticed several items that have me wondering like what appears to be radiator pipes running from the cowl to the upper wing and the odd looking exhaust. Likewise the reflector sight something I wasn't aware of being fitting to late Fokkers. But still all and all very interesting.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Gregory, the reflector site wasn't standard, but it did exist and could be fitted. I can dig up references if you are interested
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Just a thought on the matter and then I will shut up.....
I am also wondering about the 2nd picture like kornbeef.
If those are 4 exhausts exiting from the right side, then one might assume that there are 4 also on the left side, which might possibly indicate V-8 type of motor.
Also, each side seems to have 2 sets of inverted "V" struts going from the fuselage sides to the upper wing.
And, the water pipes suggest an upper wing radiator. And, the gun butts do not appear to extend into the front of the cockpit opening.
I did a very quick flip thru "Thetford and Gray - German Aircraft of the First World War" (Yep, I know it is an old resource) and can find reference to the Benz BZ.IIIb motor, a V-8, which appeared in a few aircraft. I came across some that could possibly be candidates, but they match in as many characteristics as they do not.
But, it still might be one of those odd experimental types that Fokker was always coming up with..........
Back to sleep..... :-\
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Aroth,
I believe you're on to something there my friend. I wonder if the photo is of the late Albatros prototype powered by the Benz BZ.III b V-8. The more I look at the photos the more questions I have.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Gregory, the reflector site wasn't standard, but it did exist and could be fitted. I can dig up references if you are interested
Bo,
I had read somewhere that the Reflector type sight was around during the late war period. But this is the first one I've seen. Actually it reminds me a little of the Revi Sight fitted to early Bf.109's. Please don't go to any trouble to dig up any information on the sight,but on the other hand if it's handy I'd love to read it.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Some info on the Oigee site here (http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=17850)
(http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh640/UncleTony1917/2f4bfa70ec98f6c1ca8307775b717d41_zps9ac93c86.jpg)
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Theres a well known pic of a reflector gunsight fitted to a Dr.1 (pic 62 in the Olde Windsock Datafile special)
The more you look at pics like the one above the more you see, Fascinating eh?
Aroth may certainly on to something, The upper cowl over the engine encloses it but looks very roughly done.
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New member here, but I couldn't let this older tread go by without throwing in my 2 cents of comments.
What to say? Interesting but odd photos as is the original website they are from.
While the first/top image appears to be an O.A.W. built D VII as judged by the solid colour rib tapes, and an early one at that ie the fuselage fabric extending forward of the firewall, almost no louvereing of sheet metal, I am guessing that it is a captured aircraft. First clue is what appears to be a British ASI with static and pressure lines running from it, suspended on the upper right of the cockpit.
The repro cockpit photos spark a memory of something built by Engels way back for a client of his to showcase the client's collection of original WW1 parts, many for a D VII. I would consider it more of a display than 100% authentic representation of a wartime D VII cockpit. As pointed out, the ASI & clock don't belong and while the altimeter is great (I have the same one) it is not one usually seen in scouts being about 2-3 cm larger than standard diameter.
The 'who knows' period photo is great. Good catch on the Oigee reflector site. I think other's are correct regarding the V-8 but hard to know who's motor. There was a directive in 1917 to all engine developers to design a V-8 motor to compete with the Hispano-Suiza. Daimler (Mercedes) and Argus to name two worked on V-8 projects as well as Benz. I can't remotely see how this was captioned on the original website as a Fokker D VII. Beyond everything pointed out by others, there appears to be an additional fuselage bay between engine and ammo cans. The open area in front of ammunition storage is where a D VII fuel tank would be located but there are too many openings in the alloy panel in all the wrong places for one to be there. Cabanes are totally wrong and why upper wing radiator? Standard rads as used by Albatros D V etc won't fit in a D VII wing and it seems like a lot of redesign when a front mounted radiator would work. A great mystery I hope some one can solve.
Regards
John
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Hi John, welcome to our merrie little band!
From what you described about the first picture of an early OAW D.VII with a British instrument, it must be 2009/18, captured in May 1918 by the French who then passed it to the British. Lots of photos of this plane but this is the first one I've seen of the cockpit!
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I'm not so sure the mystery plane is even a biplane. I dont see a lower wing, just a panel.
Didn't Fokker have at least 1 V8 powered parasol at the 2nd Aldershof competition? Could this be V.27 maybe?
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You may have something there Bo.
I copied and have sat studying that pic at a much greater resolution. A few things come to light.
To my eye the cabanes now look like those of a Hannover, I know they did a twin seater fighter but cant find a decent image to check.
The cocking mechanisms for the guns, really unusual, as are the reinforced covers
The cowlings are piano hinged along the outer edge, which means the side panels may well be metal too.
The ammo feeds are not Fokker style either in fact theres nothing really Fokkerish about it than the panel fasteners when you look close.
Your point on the V.27... My only image shows it with a 4 into one exhaust system I have more images of the V.37 which was an armoured version apparently.
IMHO I think it's likely we are likely looking at a different manufacturer and possibly something in development that never saw service. Though it bears a passing resemblance to a Fokker F.IV in some respects
Still puzzled Keith ::)
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Ok, this has been driving me crazy. But I think I might have it solved.
Could the mysterious 3rd photo actually be of a Fokker D.XI? (1922, Hispano V8)
terrible picture, best I could find on the web:
(http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh640/UncleTony1917/Screen%20Shot%202015-10-22%20at%208.57.09%20PM_zps3wmufb47.png)
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picture of Fokker D.XI production line, aircraft bound for the nascent Red Air Force. Check out the cut-outs around the guns... also the peculiar square things on the side of the fuselage, so prominent in the "mystery photo" (I think the square things are radiator brackets)
(http://www.dutch-aviation.nl/pictures/Fokker/Military/Fokker%20D11%20in%20factory.jpg)
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Unfortunately, the site no longer exists. Did anyone save the pictures and could share them?
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Unfortunately, the site no longer exists. Did anyone save the pictures and could share them?
Hey Beto -- Check my Fokker D.VII Pinterest board; I have all those pix pinned including the Fokker D.XI cockpit photo (the identity of which being the subject of much of this thread ...)
http://pin.it/KLgTNRJ
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Unfortunately, the site no longer exists. Did anyone save the pictures and could share them?
Hey Beto -- Check my Fokker D.VII Pinterest board; I have all those pix pinned including the Fokker D.XI cockpit photo (the identity of which being the subject of much of this thread ...)
http://pin.it/KLgTNRJ
Done! - Finally I found the D.XI photo. And btw I grabbed a couple pictures of derelict D.VIIs I had never seen... ;-) Thank you!!!!!!