forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => WW1 Aircraft Information/Questions => Topic started by: JoeDxMB on July 25, 2012, 08:00:18 AM
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I just started my Special Hobby Morane Sauliner A-1 and I have a question . What is this on either side of the fuselage with remove before flight flags?
They are represented in the kit by low relief circles and I was wondering what they are. :)
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I guess it is the intake for the carburetor, no? Plugged to keep squirrels and small children out while on the ground...
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That is what I suspected also but, I can't get any definate info on it.
I guess I will drill out the holes and insert a small length of tube to represent the intake if that's indeed what it is.
Thanks. :)
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Joe,
That's the carburetor intake my friend. As you guessed you could drill it out and replace tubing or drill it out with a smaller bit leaving the molded intake in place. Always wanted to build a MS A-1 just never got around to it. I
looking forward to following your build thread.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Joe,
That's the carburetor intake my friend. As you guessed you could drill it out and replace tubing or drill it out with a smaller bit leaving the molded intake in place. Always wanted to build a MS A-1 just never got around to it. I
looking forward to following your build thread.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
Actually, upon closer inspection, the moulded "hole" is actually somewhat oblong with no intake pipe represented .......just the "hole" in the fuselage that needs to be drilled out is.
As luck would have it, I just found another pic of the actual aircraft I am representing.... the Rhinebeck Aerodrome's A-1.
This pic cleary showed the intake pipe protruding through the hole obliquely and this is why the hole needs to be slightly oblong.
So, now I know exactly what I need to do.
BTW, I also just found a great color pic of an A-1 cockpit. :)
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Whoa! That strut arrangement looks challenging. I'm looking forward to watching this build unfold.
Cheers,
Chris
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Whoa! That strut arrangement looks challenging. I'm looking forward to watching this build unfold.
Cheers,
Chris
Yes it does. Although I suspect/hope, that once I get that cabane struts into place with the wing attatched and lined up , everything else will fall into place
At least the rest of the aircraft wiil be a fairly simple build.
BTW, this is the aircraft I wiil be representing .....the Rinebeck Aerodrome's A-1. Fortunately, the kit supplies all the decals nessary for it. I will start a basic build thread when I get the cockpit done .
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Looking at your photo, Joe; I can't help but wonder how often
the fabric on that Elevator needed replacing under service use?
Jim
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BTW, I noticed a mistake in the rudder stripes painting on the Rheinbeck's A-1.
The color stripes from front to back should be blue- white- red....... not red - white - blue .
This must have happened during the original restoration .
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Here's the pic clearly showing the intake.
I now have another question. What would the slot at the top of the cowl about 11 o'clock be for?
The instruction for the kit also indicate it as an optional detail that woud have to cut into the cowl.
I noticed that not all A-1s have it so, I wiil no be cutting the cowl as I d not want to risk ruining it .
However, I am curious about it. :)
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Joe,
I would imagine the 11 o'clock slot is for cooling purposes as were the lower circular slots. I would suppose the shape of the slot is different from the lower one to avoid weakening the cowl too much.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Hmm it is a bit curious that it is asymmetric...
Does this slot appear on period photos? Could it have something to do with the hollywood machine gun? (don't they use propane or acetylene or something?)
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Actually, I've found that period photos of the A-1 are very rare.
There does seem to be variations in the cowls that I have seen.
Not all had the bottom circular holes for example.
Perhaps the upper slot was cut into some cowls just as a means to inspect or adjust something more easily with the cowls still on?
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Found some period photos on the aerodrome -- scroll down:
http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/aircraft/43197-morane-saulnier-i-type-30-a-2.html
I seemed to get better search results searching on Morane Saulnier A-I vs. A-1 -- I read somewhere the former is "correct", for whatever it's worth.
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That's one I did not find. Thanks. At least it shows it with covered wheels .
As the Poster said, " .........Second, I've never seen the series of small holes halfway back on the cowl on an other AI. Are they a field modification? And what for? "
Lke I said, there appears to be some variations of it and I also wonder what mods were done in the field when it went into training service as its cobat service was short lived .
BTW, I always search for Morane Saulnier A-1. :)
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It's an interesting thread. There is a reference to the Rhinebeck machine being substantially altered, but without elaboration (at least that I caught from skimming it)
I don't know if this is true or not, but I have always gotten the sense that the Rhinebeck planes all went thru the Cole Palen filter such that they are all a little distorted/catywampus visually speaking... Don't get me wrong, I admired what he did there tremendously... Just saying.
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As far as I know, the only way the Rhinebeck A-1 was altered was cosmeticly and was only in it's squadron markings including its silver/red color. However, the rudder stripes are in the wrong color order.
I still do not understand that as shurely Cole must have been aware of the correct order..
As far a Cole altering aircraft, it must be undersood the some of the the original aircraft were basket cases when he got them and Cole simply made do with what was available to him keeping it historicly accurate as much as possible.
Cole was just as interested in making an aircraft airworthy as he was with historic accuracy and I imagine some minor inacuracies were traded off to have an airworthy aircraft .
An example is the Albie DV.a copy which originally had a Mercedes enginge.
The engine's crankshaft broke early on and to keep it flying, a more modern Ranger engine was installed
I remember seeing Cole a few times and he was quite a "larger than life" showman with a great sense of humor who enjoyed putting on a show as much as he loved flying (and building) those vintage aircraft.
Yeah, some of the aircraft markings might be a bit "cattywampus", even a bit over the top but, I imaging this was the showman in Cole responsiible for it. After all, if he could not draw crowds to his shows, he had no financing for his aircraft, etc . Most in the crowds just came to see a show and had no real concept of historical accuracy. I get the distinct impression that all this is not lost on the present management.
BTW........ weather permitting, I plan on taking a drive up the Hudson to Rhinebeck on the second weekend in september. My camera will get a real workout then. :)
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BTW, does anyone know of a pic of the bullet deflector plates on the prop that the A-1 used?
I believe that they were some sort of triangular shaped deflectors that protruded from the back side of the prop as oposed to just a flat metal plate.
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Joe,
Let me look through my references today for the deflector plate. I'm fairly certain I have a drawing for you my friend.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Thanks. :)
As luck would have it, I just found one .
I believe that the same deflector type was use on other early MS aircraft as well . The trangular shape deflected the bullet to either side of the prop and I imagine that it was bit more effective than just a flat plate.
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Wait, what? The A-I was a late war fighter with synchronized Vickers -- why would it have deflector plates?
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Wait, what? The A-I was a late war fighter with synchronized Vickers -- why would it have deflector plates?
If that is the case, I got some wrong info along the way. :)
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Tony,
After looking through my information I've got to agree with Tony. I believe the Morane A-1 and the Morane N have become confused here. As Tony had stated the A-1 was armed with twin Vicker which were synchronized.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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OK..... thanks guys.
FWIW........ I just looked at my yet unbuilt Special Hobby MS-N and the defectors are well modeled for it .
It goes to to show that one is never too old to learn something. :)
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I am also currently building the SH MS A-1. As molded, the forward fuselage of the kit appears to have a mix of MS 27,28,29,& 30 features with maybe even some replica aircraft one off mods thrown in. The Monosoupape Gnome 9N would not have the breather pipe arrangement that is seen on other rotary engined aircraft as the engine used a single valve for both intake and exhaust and did not have a carburetor (check photos of Nieuport 28s which used the same engine). The type 30 used Le Rhone engines and I believe that is what the aircraft in the photos with breather pipes are. However, I am at a loss to explain the breather pipes on the Cole Palen aircraft as it appears to have the Monosoupape engine. To build the MS A1 29s featured on the kit decal sheets (one of the sets of markings is for a type 27), you will need to remove the raised details molded on the forward fuselage of the kit and add the comma shaped photo etched pieces that represent the outlines of access panels (shown opened in one of the previously posted photos), or, and probably easier, scribe the outlines of the access panels. As previously stated, the aircraft is difficult to research, with many contradictions and variations evident in photos. The best single source reference is the Mini Datafile and, as always, if you can find good photos of the specific aircraft that you plan to model, your task will be easier. I am also open to suggestions as to how to cut the cooling slot in the 11:00 o'clock position.
http://www.enginehistory.org/Gnome%20Monosoupape.pdf
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Yes, I also realized after searching the net for info that the the kit is basicllly a conglomeration of varous versions ..... a generic vers if you will .
In any event, I'm basically building a representation of the ORA vers which admittedly may not be historically accurate to begin with in a few respects . Cole Palen aquired it when it was in fairly rough shape and as always, he tried to make do with what was available to him.
Anyway, I have fond memories of seeing it fly back in the '80s and I just want to build a good looking aircraft even if it's not it is not 100% accurate .
So far I'm 100% satisfied with it. I always though that if there was such a thing a a "pretty" WWI aircraft, it would have to be the A-1. :)
BTW, my next step is to start mounting the wing and that may be the most difficult part.
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I'll be interested in reading your account of how mounting the wing progresses. It looks to be a daunting task and I am not impressed with the engineering of the kit.
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I have a plan as to how to mount/align the wing and I suspect that it may not be as difficult as feared after all once initial alignment is achieved.
BTW, I am building a two gun version as the kit only modlels the fuselage upper cheek cowls for that as I understand it .
The kit may not be WNW/ Tamiya quality but I've bult much worse in the past. :)