forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Paper and Card models => Topic started by: NinetythirdLiberator on August 31, 2020, 02:41:24 PM
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Hello All,
I couldn't let another day go by without starting another WWI paper model. Before I start a complicated Albatros D-V, I figured I'd make this neat model that Marco (Matt77) gave away in a recent post. It will make a nice and relaxing diversion as I continue making a rather large Dornier Arrow paper card model that is going well, but it ain't WWI (my first love)...so I'll start getting this thing moving in a day or two. The pictures show the front "cover" of Matt77's repaint on my computer and the other shot is the kit as printed on 65lb. paper card stock and clear coated with Krylon satin clear.
Fitter is the same designer who made the Nieuport I finished recently so it should go together pretty well. It will be a nice addition since it will look a lot different than the classic Abatri I have on the shelf at present.
More soon so sharpen your scissors...Dan
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This is a great challenge because, in my opinion, Fitter has divided the fuselage into too many "somites" (nine parts :o), and, the accuracy in gluing can be bad affected by any errors in my recoloring. I apologize in advance.
matt77
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Hello Dan,
Start cutting and let the show begin! It's going to be great to see another one of your projects.
Kevin
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Dan, looking forward to your tutorial showing the rest of us the way on this kit! Have fun. ;D
Best,
Bob
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Dan
I see what Matt77 means, that is a lot of sections to line up and fit. I'd say you have your work cut out for you....except it will be you doing the cutting. I have no doubt that you will master it and it will turn out another masterpiece. Do keep us all posted as work progresses.
sp
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Thanks Folks...I do see what Marco means too. I do find that, just like in wood working, if you are off by only a 64th of an inch on one end of a 3 foot board...you are really messed up 3 feet later! This will be "fun" but we'll tackle it. I also hope that the many panels may coincide with actual joints? That way Terri won't be upset... ::) I need to look into what a D-III really looked like.
Starting it tonight so my next post will show some beginnings.
Cheers and thanks for the interest...Dan
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Got the tails and tail skid done including the control horns on the elevator. If the rest of it goes like these parts, it will be a doddle... ;D
Dan
P.S. Now, of course, I've jinxed it! :o ::)
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Those look wonderful Dan! Did you use a balsa core for the tail planes, or paper inserts? Looks like balsa tabs peeking out. ;D
Best,
Bob
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A real good start Dan. I was wondering about the balsa tabs too. I made balsa wing stiffeners for the Berg, but stuck with the cardboard backed paper for the tailfeathers. Are you intending to back the fuselage formers with balsa? I think that would be good as it is easier to sand the edge of the formers in the dry fit process, of which there will be quite a bit on this model. Keep a steady hand cutting those curved fuselage sections.
sp
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Hi Bob and SP, my fellow folks who run with scissors...
I am using 1/32nd sheet balsa throughout. As was pointed out, I find it easier to sand and form to the right shape and that fuselage will need it! I think I'll do the wings next as they are just spars, formers and skins. That way I'll feel like I'm making headway and then I'll start the dreaded fuse.
More tonight (I think)...Dan
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Great start and as always the Artwork is lovely!
RAGIII
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Amazing how many scissors references there are in stuff written about card models, yet I rarely found a use for them on the card models I have worked on.
Kind of like references to "Canvas covered box kites" when I doubt the average WWI airframe would support canvas covering without being crushed with the weight.
I guess we all know linen flies and Xactos cut but those words just don't give the same mind pictures.
sp
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;D ;D
Funny...I actually, for the first time last night, used scissors to cut out the basic shapes for gluing them to balsa! I've never done it before either.
Scary...
Well observed, SP!
Dan
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A tiny bit more and some issues: It's really nebulous where the forward bulkhead with the gun butts actually goes and the slots for both formers are so wide, that I accidentally glued them (really well) to the floor board too far apart. I know this because my cockpit skin (as seen) is too narrow. Plus, I'm not sure how the skin fits along the forward bulkhead at the bottom with a really angular portion. Still needs some more fitting and head scratching...as well as a joy stick and belts! But it's coming along.
Cheers,
Dan
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Looking good Dan. I'm sure you will work out the bulkhead positions. You might try some doublers, (or triplers), to get some support under the paper barrel joint. Matt77 really seems to have hit the blonde Albie ply color and texture dead on.
sp
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Thanks, SP. Shown in the attachment is one of the issues with a better picture. I'm not sure where the skin fits in relation to those large angular ears. Do the skins hug that tortuous outline or do I cut a notch and have the ears protrude? The next skin is just flush and smooth and shows no indication of slots etc. I need to see what a real D-III looked like down there! ;D
Still X-actoing away...
Cheers,
Dan
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Dan
I have references. Hold on and I will PM you some drawings.
sp
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SP...thanks again for the refs! They will be a real help.
Since I'm still figuring out the cockpit and forward, I decided to try the rear. I really wanted to see how well things matched up. You can see in the first picture all the segments with formers and then they are simply butt joined. I prefer tabs as I can get a better seam that way, but this is what I'm starting with. Once things dry and are burnished a bit, the seams will be a bit better.
I REALLY tried, Terri! :P :'( ;)
Plus, you can see that Marco's artwork is pretty much spot on. The slight misalignment of the clover and heart are likely my doing and are easily touched up. Loving it! Well done, Marco... ;D
More tomorrow...Dan
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Dan
The separate rudder is a very nice touch and while this isn't my favorite AH scheme, Matt77 sure makes it look good. I think the seams will disappear as they look like they are on panel lines and formers will let you press a bit harder when you emboss them. I am most impressed with your results.
Darlin daughter wanted to see what Brumowski looked like and I did a google search. She got a gander at his all red Albatros with the skulls and said she had to have a model of it. (First interest she has ever shown in models) So I rummaged the stash and came up with, of all things, the dreadful old Glencoe AH Albatros with the Red Albie on the box art. Decals look usable, (more so than some of the parts), so the next plastic I start will be the Glencoe kit. Now that is going to get Old School in a hurry.
sp
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Very nice work Dan! That fuselage really looks good. Have you thought of doing a video of this build, as it's a new kit, or would your Pfalz D.III video cover the same construction issues with a butt-jointed, multi-segmented, cylindrical fuselage? Probably too late now anyway! ;D We neophytes out here in paperworld rely on your guidance however we can get it! ;)
I am looking forward to your continuing progress on this beauty.
Best regards,
Bob
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Thanks Bob and SP!
Yeah...I'm just building this one as the Dornier videos take a lot of time. I will be making a series on the DVa, however. I'll also post some more tonight but I found some issues, self induced, and have fixed them. The rear fuselage just looked odd to me and when I added the fin and rudder, it was at the wrong angle. I then looked at a picture and realized that I added the rear-most former the wrong way! I assumed it went in vertical and that makes no sense as the whole machine swoops into a nice horizontal flat fan tail. Once I removed it and put it horizontal, the fin fits great and looks awesome. Plus, the whole rear fuse looks much better and even the stab fits squarely now! So no major surgery needed (as I had thought)...you just need to take your time and think a bit! ::) Always look at the real machine.
I'll show some shots tonight...stay tuned.
Dan
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Here are a couple of update shots with a nicer rear end!
Still more to come...
Dan
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Much more gooder. Nice save there Dan.
sp
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Much more gooder. Nice save there Dan.
sp
Ditto! I really like the A-H schemes, and this Alby Oeffag is gonna look superb when you are through with the cutting and shaping and gluing. ;D
Best,
Bob
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Hey Guys...
Got a bit more done tonight. The rear is finished with the tail skid, touch-up, rigging and hinges. The forward fuselage will still take some head-scratching.
I took a break and made the top wing. Went together with little fuss. I included a shot showing how I sandwich a ruler under the leading edge top skin and slowly (very slowly) tease it over the top. Sort of rocking and bending pushing it further with each repetition. Then the paper sort of gets a memory into position and gluing is easy.
Finally, the finished parts thus far. Looks darn cool...
Cheers,
Dan :D
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:)
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Looking better and better Dan. That is a lot of ribs to cut. I am liking this one more and more.
sp
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Just superb Dan! Tail and wing look perfect, and really highlight this interesting scheme. As always, Marco's artistry shines through, coming o life under your careful construction. Very well done!
Thanks for showing us the way. ;D
Best,
Bob
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Thank you gentlemen... :D
I got the ailerons built and installed, made the simplified radiator and then finished off the evening session by rolling the last of the main fuselage parts. Tomorrow I'll try to figure out the fuselage from the cockpit forward. It may well be a bumpy ride! :-\
Thanks for looking (again),
Dan
P.S. Can you guys wait for that star strutter???!!!! I can't. ;D
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Lookin good Dan. I like how the control surfaces can be posed.
"P.S. Can you guys wait for that star strutter???!!!! I can't."
I'm getting twitchy in anticipation.
sp
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Dan, the completed top wing looks first rate. I noticed that you have rolled the forward fuselage sections without bulkheads at this point. How do you ensure that the sections will meet the fuselage cross-section without the bulkheads in place, or am I missing something? Are you relying on the kit part sizing on paper, and then matching the cylindrical section to the bulkhead when you assemble the section? Just curious, for future reference.
This model is looking so nice! I’m looking forward to seeing how the forward fuselage and bottom wings go together. Nice work and great progress!
Best,
Bob
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Thanks SP and Bob!
Bob: I tend to make the strips first assuming that, if cut correctly, they are the right size. Then I can tweak the bulkhead to fit the strip. It's nice using balsa so sanding them down is easy and if I cut them too small, small strips of masking tape around the edge of the bulkhead will make it a tiny bit bigger. This one is especially odd since I can't figure out exactly how the front is supposed to go and which formers go where. I'm working on the tip of the nose now and that's ok...it's the area/transition from the cockpit area to engine that has be taking pause...
Hope that helps.
Dan
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Dan,
I assume by "strips" you're referring to the individual fuselage pieces ... vice joining strips. You're obviously skilled in butt joining, but in my incompetence, I find butting pieces a pain, and not very precise as concerns getting a clean join. I'm lazy, but evidently not alone since many paper model experts fabricate joining strips if none are provided in the kit ... as illustrated here http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/89214-post8.html. An easy way to make joining strips is to print extra fuselage pieces and cut the strips from the edges of those spare pieces, thus matching shape and coloring. Trim the bulkheads to sit behind or on the strips.
Gene K
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That's true, Gene. I am trying to do butt joints just because that's the way the kit was designed and I'm trying to make it look as nice as I can. The individual sections of fuselage skin have connecting strips, just no strips between skin/former sub units.
I got the front done! I figured out the directions a bit and realized that the engine area has doubled-up formers with wood effect because you will be able to see inside the engine bay. Once I figured that out, things went well. Lots of careful sanding and fitting, fitting, fitting.
I also installed one delicate former sandwiched together and glued it "proud" on the end so protruding lip acted as a ledge for the adjoining piece rather than putting formers in each tube. The front formers are also very delicate and thin so I left them whole until I got the skins on. Then I daisy-chain drilled holes and separated the cut outs.
Lastly...and most importantly...the weird (to me) angular ears worked great once dimwit realized that you needed to pre-fold the skins and actually fit them around those sharp edges. Then, things fit like a puzzle. Needs some burnishing and touch-up but pretty nice.
Next will be trying to figure out the cockpit area which is still a bit odd to me. Just keep forging ahead!
Thanks for looking...Dan ;)
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:)
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;)
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First rate modeling Dan. You made the design work and work darn well. There is an immense amount of information packed into the sketches that pass for instructions on some of these models. I expect their European origins require ideas to be expressed with a minimum of language so as to increase marketability outside the designer's home country. The rules seem to be: Never state something twice. Never state the obvious. And only hint at the subtle .
You did great figuring it all out.
sp
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Thanks, SP!
This is my last update for tonight...I promise...
I have only one segment left as you can see. I got the main cockpit part installed but only by cutting off a large section of the rear floor board and basically sanding it flat with my Dremel. Then it sat nicely up against the clover bulkhead no sweat! Not sure what I did wrong there but I made it work. ::)
I also put on the cockpit edging. I may put some louvers and inspection panels on tonight, or go out and look at Saturn and Jupiter with my telescope. Hmmm...maybe I should get off my sorry behind!
We'll see if I can get the rest of the main fuselage done tomorrow. Then we'll work on the lower wing, engine and front cowling which is a "tulip" cut design to make the curves. Hold on tight...
Dan
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Love it! You are handling that fuselage.
sp
(Who is going twitchy trying not to paw the Berg while the top wing dries.)
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Looking as amazing as always!
RAGIII
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Wonderful and meticulous build! Well done!
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Well...got her done but not beautifully. I fear this one will be a 3 footer. Marco's art all lines up perfectly, but I too now agree that there are too many segments! Of course, I am no designer so that's not a shot at Fitter by any means. I just don't know if there could be an alternative...I'd be for it! ;D
I'll work on the bottom wing and then start the engine. I do think it will be a pretty cool machine in any event...
Thanks for looking...Dan
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Lower wings done and test fitted. Itching to get some struts done now!
Cheers,
Dan
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You are really bustin this one out Dan. It looks so much better made up in 3D as opposed to looking at the parts sheets in 2D.
My back has gone out on me again and I haven't done a thing with models today, so it is really good to see your progress.
sp
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She’s looking really lovely Dan! Can’t wait for those struts and final assembly. ;D
Best,
Bob
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Well...got her done but not beautifully. I fear this one will be a 3 footer. Marco's art all lines up perfectly, but I too now agree that there are too many segments! Of course, I am no designer so that's not a shot at Fitter by any means. I just don't know if there could be an alternative...I'd be for it! ;D
I'll work on the bottom wing and then start the engine. I do think it will be a pretty cool machine in any event...
Thanks for looking...Dan
If it were a fish, you can think of cutting with a cleaver, or filleting with a sharp knife.
(http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/c8b6/zl8yl7z2tycdd4jzg.jpg)
In the way illustrated above, the body panels would not be interrupted in a stochastic way.
I believe that the direction of my next projects could be this.
Marco.
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I really enjoy when clever folks like Marco share their "behind the scenes" thoughts, thus allowing a glimpse into their process. Learn a lot that way, so many thanks!
The chop-up of the Albatros is similar to what I've done with Radio Control builds (mocked up via paper), and the cowl section (A on the diagram) is a particular challenge. Will be interesting how that will be done.
Gene K
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Thanks, Marco! I agree with Gene...it's cool to see how you designers think of things. I know when I made plans for a little rubber powered balsa and tissue D-III I did it like you suggested. I do like how Fitter got those wing root parts done, though. Very slick. A better modeler (Insert random Polish/Czech/German/Russian/Italian Paper Modeler here) would do it justice.
I'll keep plugging away. I do like how it's turning out!
Dan
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Got the top wing on! Now I trust I can still get the engine in there... ::)
Only modification was to add my usual wire in the struts and the V-strut attachment on the lower wing was way too far back...almost in the center of the bottom wing. Just looked odd. It should be farther forward and in line (from the side) with the rear attachment of the cabane to fuselage joint. Good thing about paper is that it only takes a sharp pointy stick to make a new hole! ;D
Thanks for looking,
Dan
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Looking good Dan. I would venture to guess you have your fingers caught in the PCF, (Paper Card Field). This is a field emitted by paper and traps a modeler's fingers so they have to constantly cut, bend, fold, spindle, mutilate and glue paper until it looks like an airplane. Not having touched paper card for over 24 hrs, I can attest to the severity of the withdrawal symptoms. So model on.
Didn't the Austrian Albies have two spars in the lower wing to prevent the flutter encountered by the Germans? That might have altered the strut locations.
sp
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Hi SP...
I do know that these were better than the German ones...not sure about the spars, though. I doubt there would be a spar dead center...maybe 1/3 back and 2/3 back from the leading edge? I'm just guessing here. Anyway, based on my pictures, this one looks better now.
I'll try and find out. You make a great point.
Speaking of great points, you should be at the Mayo Clinic. This explains so much! ;D
Keep cutting...Dan
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I did just tried to see how the Austrians did it. Apparently they used heavier wood, better ribs and thicker/strengthened areas of the spar in the lower wing. I did look at a nice three view and realized that the aileron control cables go into holes into the lower wing just behind the V-part. So maybe what I saw as an attachment point for the strut was the hole for those cables....hmmmm.
Anyway, things are still going well! Can't wait to start the engine...Dan ;)
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Just getting caught up on your progress and you are making quick work on it . Looks really good so far and the fuselage looks fine to my eye .
I think you need to work on the scaling of that brownie thought , how is the pilot going to eat that when it won't fit his pocket ??! ;)
Terri
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This Alby is looking marvelous Dan! Carry on! ;D
Best,
Bob
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Thank you Terri and Bob.
My son has been on a baking rampage and now that he's back at school, maybe I'll lose some weight!
A tiny update...got the landing gear and spreader bar on. Easy to do with no surprises and excellent fit. On to the engine tomorrow once I figure out what goes where!
Cheers,
Dan
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Looking great up on her legs Dan. This model is looking better and better as you go. I have it printed up and it isn't easy not starting it.
I was bad today and ordered a Martin Baker MB.5 including laser cut formers and a vac formed clear canopy. Always wanted a model of one.
sp
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Dan, I have the same feeling as sp--seeing your build of this one makes it tough not to jump in and build this one next too! You have built up a very handsome Alby Oeffag in large scale. I will have to do one of these two kits from Marco before long. You have whetted my appetite! ;D Very nicely done.
Best,
Bob
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Your Albatros really looks great with the wings and gear in place! Lovely work!
RAGIII
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Thanks SP, Bob and Rick!
An eensie-teensie-weensie update. Engine in and looking ok. Next job is the rounded front cowling which is a tulip design to get the correct curves. Wish me luck!
Dan
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I did the nose today. Started out as a petal design that was dabbed into submission...sort of. Then I sanded, primed, filled, sanded, primed, filled (x 7,000). Then I airbrushed with some white, a tint of clear yellow and oversprayed with some aluminum. It's a start and now will need to be tweaked and dirtied a bit maybe with pastels. It's as close as I could get to Marco's worn aluminum art work. I think the shape looks pretty Oeffag-ish.
I have no idea why it ended up with a rectangular opening. Somehow, I'll put a prop shaft in and hope for the best! ::)
Maybe finished tomorrow...Dan
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Now that is some serious sanding and filling. Looks great. Those compound curved dome shapes are some of paper's real let downs. Just no way to make them look right without sanding and filling. Great work!
sp
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Thanks, SP. Definitely worth it in the end.
So I am almost done. Next shots will be in the finished area. I got the nose weathered and blended with some pastels, made the wheels and tires, rigged the machine and put on the lower wing root fairings. There is still some touch up and I even need a joystick and seat belts as well as a windscreen! Oh...and some blast tubes. So more than I think, but it is definitely super close.
Dan
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Excellent result allover... not much different from a plastic kit
Congratulations! and thanks also to Matt77, again!
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Very nice work Dan! She looks lovely. ;D Is the prop paper? It really looks good.
Best regards,
Bob
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Looks real good Dan. You got that segmented fuselage down pat.
sp