Author Topic: Eddie Rickenbacker SPAD XIII Markings  (Read 4074 times)

Online andonio64

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Eddie Rickenbacker SPAD XIII Markings
« on: November 17, 2016, 10:38:43 PM »
Hallo gentlemen,
a friend of mine is building a SPAD XIII and he wants to give tha plane the livery of Eddie Rickenbacker.
There are a couple of questions regarding the markings:

1 - is the diagonal band on top wing historically demonstrated? And in case which colours was it painted?
I have seen many Rickenbacker's pictures and was not able to spot the band on any of them, moreover I saw many built kits and some of them have a white band, some a red-white band and some adopted a tricolour band (blue-white-red)...
I have seen 2 photos


in which it seems to be 2 colours, white+another colour... can it be red?


2 - is the engine cowling red ? From the 2nd photo it appears the same dark gray tone of the dark part of the top wing band...

Any more precise information?

Thanks

Antonio

Offline GAJouette

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Re: Eddie Rickenbacker SPAD XIII Markings
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2016, 02:37:24 AM »
 Antonio,
Rickenbacker's SPAD XIII  carried a three color band of red,white and blue (U.S national colors). The cowl was red. I hope this helps my old friend.Please ask your friend to join us and post a build thread. Let me know if I can be of further assistance.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette

PS: What scale is your friend building in?
" What Me Worry"

Online andonio64

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Re: Eddie Rickenbacker SPAD XIII Markings
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2016, 02:53:30 AM »
Thank you Gregory, on the photos (and on a book I have at home) I can see just two bands, I know red white and blue are most plausible colours  being the US national colours but I can't see a third shade on the band...

My friend only builds in 1/72 and very seldom makes ww1 planes. In any case I will invite him to join us, I hope he'll accept!

Thanks again for the collaboration.

Antonio

Offline joelrawson

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Re: Eddie Rickenbacker SPAD XIII Markings
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2016, 04:04:50 AM »
Hi, In Medal of Honor Volume 1 Aviators of World War One, Flying Machines Press, pages 102 and 103, there are very good 4-view color illustrations of Rickenbacker's SPAD.
They show a two-color band, red and white,  on the top wing and underside of the bottom wing, red white and blue stripes on the landing gear legs, and the star insignia on the wheel covers. The cowling is red. The question I have is, Were the radiator and shutters painted red also?  On most photos of SPADs the shutters are a light color, probably aluminum as the Smithsonian restoration of SMITH IV depicts the airplane.  On the head-on photo of Rickenbacker's SPAD shown here, and in other photos as well, the shutters and radiator are dark. If I were to do another Rickenbacker SPAD (I built the 1/28th Revell  model 20 years ago and screwed up several colors including the wing bands) I would paint the cowl, shutters and radiator all red.

Offline GAJouette

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Re: Eddie Rickenbacker SPAD XIII Markings
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2016, 06:29:27 AM »
 Antonio,
Checking through my references I've found conflicting information on your question concerning the wing stripe colors. Some show red/white while others indicate red/white/blue. I've taken the liberty of e-mail Over The Front with your question and relay their answer as soon as I hear back from them. I'm not certain at this point whether Rickenbacker flew different SPAD's marked as "OLD #1 or not,but it seem likely he did. This may explain the conflicting information. As per "French Aircraft of the First World One " page 596 the SPAD XIII illustrated is a Kellner built SPAD carrying the Red cowl and a red/white wing stripe. If you need the camouflage pattern for a Kellner built A/C or if OTF indicates a different manufacturer I should be able to get you the needed pattern. I also agree with Joel concerning the red painting of the shutters likely being red as well. However I have doubts the radiator itself would have been painted red as well. More later my old friend.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
" What Me Worry"

Online andonio64

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Re: Eddie Rickenbacker SPAD XIII Markings
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2016, 07:12:50 PM »
Dear Gregory,
thanks once more for your search, I am glad you forwarded the question to OTF, they could help indeed. I have seen the profile shown on page 596 of "French Aircraft of the First World One" and after seeing so manyphotos I tend to agree with it. I have also "hat in the ring gang" book from which the blue stripe seems to never appear, as well as the red-white-blue bracelets on the carriage struts are shown in no Rickenbacker plane photo.

My friend thanks you and all of us for inviting him in the forum and says that he barely can bear the presence on one forum, he was also on other forums such as Hyperscale and other italian forums and now just keeps his presence only on one (http://www.mab.forumfree.it/)

Online andonio64

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Re: Eddie Rickenbacker SPAD XIII Markings
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2016, 04:18:14 AM »
After reading Joel Rawson's post I got curious and purchased the book "Medal of Honor - volume 1 / Aviators of World War 1" by Alan E. Durkota, Flying Machines Press

On page on page 92 while describing the Profile no.8: Ni28 "No.16" S/N N6283, on which ER flew for sure from May 29 to June 7, 1918, the author writes:

<<
To further differentiate First Pursuit Group aircraft on a Squadron Level, while at Toul, France, each unit began to apply a stripe of distinctive color and designto their machine top right and bottom left wing.
The 94th adopted a a diagonal two-color stripe which was equally divided between red and white.
>>

I don't know Alan E. Durkota's competence, but the book seems a good work of research therefore this seems an important piece of knowledge added to this thread.
The SPAD XIII no.1 is drawn as well with the white / red band, the only thing I still am not convinced are the blue-red-white bracelets on the carriage struts...
Never seen a picture showing that, does anybody know one pic showing those decorations?

Offline petrov27

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Re: Eddie Rickenbacker SPAD XIII Markings
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2016, 09:24:07 AM »
Hi Andonio,

In "The Hat in the Ring Gang" pages 197 and 203 there are photos of Rickenbacker and his number 1 where the red-white-blue bands are clearly seen on the undercarriage. Other SPADs in the unit also have this marking apparent.

Other observations:
-Cowling is a dark color differing from adjacent panels.
-dark angled stripe seen on underside of wing
-Number 1 on underside of wing appears white with dark outline

-Patrick

Offline Stampesv4c

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Re: Eddie Rickenbacker SPAD XIII Markings
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2017, 05:45:19 PM »
I am building a 1/72 Spad XIII C1 in Eddie Rickenbacker colour scheme, I have a Revell Kit. I checked the colours against the Replica Spad XIII and the first thing I noticed was the Cowl inside area was aluminum and copper tube so, first mistake, second the Under carriage as Light grey but by the pictures it is Matt White.
What I wanted to get opinion on is the colour used on the top front fuselage. Revell has it as Matt Red Brick, checking the pictures against the Humbrol colour chart it's not Matt Red Brick. Have added a picture, can you learned people tell me what you think the colour really is.


« Last Edit: May 29, 2017, 05:00:36 PM by Stampesv4c »