Author Topic: Nieuport 11/16 colors  (Read 1773 times)

Offline Dennis Sparks

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Nieuport 11/16 colors
« on: October 12, 2016, 09:23:02 AM »
I've lately become enamored with the various versions of the Nieuport and have been building a series of the Eduard 1/48th scale Nieuport 11/16/17 models (wonderful little kits, by the way).  But I'm confused about the camouflage colors used and I'm hoping that someone can set me straight here.  Here's a list of my assumptions (and yes I know the risk of assuming!)

I assume that most of the Nieuport 11s left the factory in an overall clear doped linen finish.   But by the time the Nieuport 16 with the larger engine was introduced, at least some might have been delivered wearing camouflage, with the likelihood that some were also being painted at depots or in the field.  Add in the replacements of camouflage painted wings, etc. to  older CDL finished aircraft.  And lastly, I assume that by time the Nieuport 17s were introduced, the normal factory finish was a silver dope, again with the possibility of field applied paint or painted replacement parts.

I've also noted that the two-color camouflage illustrated in the various releases of the Eduard 11/16 kits are in of two different combinations, and these two seemingly different schemes are also apparent in the posted photos of models on the internet.  One scheme uses a lighter green plus a darker green, while the alternative uses more or less the same lighter green, but instead combined with a dark brown. 

To try to be more descriptive, the light green tends to resemble a darker version of the WWII RAF interior green, while the darker green varies from a straightforward dark green reminiscent of British racing green to more of an olive drab.  The dark brown in the illustrations and the models runs from a reddish brown (almost a rust color) to a much darker brown without the reddish tinge.

So, a couple of questions... Are these illustrations and models actually depicting two different color combinations, or are they simply different artist's views of one scheme, i.e. are the depicted browns and dark greens actually only one color?

Secondly, are these two (or three?) colors the same hues that were later used in the five color upper scheme on SPADs, Breguets, and the like (light green, dark green, brown, yellowish light brown and black)?

And an unrelated Nieuport color question:  Were the landing gear struts and cabane struts of all variants made of steel tubing, with only the interplane struts in a varnished wood finish?  If so, were they invariably painted silver, gray, or a beige that roughly matched the CDL, or were they sometimes painted in the upper camouflage colors?

Dennis

Offline Suffolk Lad

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Re: Nieuport 11/16 colors
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2016, 04:35:39 PM »
Hello Dennis,

Having only recently finished a Nieuport 16 and setting out with exactly the same questions about the colours you have you may want to take a look at the thread not so much for the build but for the great and helpful replies I received from Xan, Borsos and Dave CCW etc to my questions.

My understanding is that the U/C is tubing and on the camouflage versions were painted a light, bluey grey

The build is herehttp://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=6611.0

Regards - Tug

Offline jeroen_R90S

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Re: Nieuport 11/16 colors
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2016, 04:50:57 AM »
There should be "like" or "thanks" button here -all I'll need for a Nieuport 16 build is there! :)

Offline xan

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Re: Nieuport 11/16 colors
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2016, 09:33:54 PM »
I explain here my arguments in favour of the two colors camouflage:
http://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=6783.45

Xan
« Last Edit: October 14, 2016, 12:27:55 AM by xan »
"Zwei Armeen, die sich bekämpfen, sind eine grosse Armee, die Selbstmord an sich übt."
Barbusse.
"Une montagne en Allemagne ne peut pas offenser une montagne en France. Ou une rivière ou une forêt ou un champ de blé."
Remarque.

WarrenD

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Re: Nieuport 11/16 colors
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2016, 01:23:00 AM »
Dennis,
            You have already gotten some stellar answers to your question, and I have nothing to add to most of that because those that have replied are some great experts. However, the early Nie.17's were not finished in silver dope (enduit metalaise I believe? I could have the spelling incorrect), but came from the factory in camouflage colors.
Nieuport 11/16's and Nie.17's are a passion of mine, and I'm always interested in assembling information on them, of which much has come out in recent years, but we're still left with a lot of speculation despite their role as a major scout type for a major power during the war.

HTH,

Warren

Offline ALBATROS1234

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Re: Nieuport 11/16 colors
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2016, 03:25:53 PM »
your assessments as i understand are not too far off, as far as camo what i have learned was there was a 2 color and 3 color camo. i am sure there were some variances in color shade but there werent as i understand a red brown and dark brown for example. that as you put it artistic license. i believe if you get the windsock datafiles on nieuport fighters you will get a much more detailed and exacting answer in the chapter near the end of each datafile on "colors and markings" as i am not the nieuport guru. i have several datafiles as well as many other books that i have read and flipped thru as well as picking up things from the last decade or so of discussions on the ww1 aero forums. alas this is predominantly a modelling forum not a historical forum so there is artistic license going on here quite a bit, sometimes the truth is more complex as there are no living people to talk with who were actually there nor many color photos or period color studies. if you are inquisitive and dig the info can be reasonably pieced together over time. most of us just use educated guesses mixed with what looks good to our own eye when we model. good luck

WarrenD

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Re: Nieuport 11/16 colors
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2016, 07:53:38 PM »
When it comes to Nie11/16's there was the two color school of thought, and then there are those who say three color, but now there is a four color school which I also subscribe to for the most part.

Warren