Author Topic: AMOdel SPAD A2  (Read 2664 times)

Offline Pfalz_Phan

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AMOdel SPAD A2
« on: August 13, 2016, 11:10:12 AM »
Is the AMOdel SPAD A2 any good?

thanks

Offline smperry

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Re: AMOdel SPAD A2
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2016, 03:07:24 PM »
I built both the Amodel and the Spin kits, but that was 10 years or so ago and I can't remember specifics. Both were decent limited run kits. They both took some work, there is a Spad in there but it takes a little more than a shake of the box to bring it out.
sp
There is something fundamentally amiss with a society which forces it's modelers to work for a living.

Offline Pfalz_Phan

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Re: AMOdel SPAD A2
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2016, 05:55:03 PM »
So the outline and shape are okay?

Offline stevehed

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Re: AMOdel SPAD A2
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2016, 06:15:36 AM »
The kit matches up to the Spad A4 plans in the WS Mini DF 4. The wingspan on the plans for the A2 are wrong according to people more knowledgeable than I and I haven't heard anyone calling the kit dimensions inaccurate. The A Model Spad A is an A2 and not an A4 no matter what it says on the box. The wings have no centre section and have four ailerons which makes it an A2. It is the only game in town as far as injection goes and is a difficult build. My tribulations are here.
http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/62104-spad-sa-4/
I also have an article I wrote for SMAKR which gives further detail on the build and I'd happily send you a copy by PM if you want one.

Regards, Steve

Offline ALBATROS1234

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Re: AMOdel SPAD A2
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2016, 09:39:10 AM »
i remember seeing your build back then steve,nice job.

Offline Pfalz_Phan

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Re: AMOdel SPAD A2
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2016, 06:46:44 PM »
Stevehed, after looking at your build thread, and the troubles pulling it together, I am afraid to ask what the other malfunctions were.

Offline stevehed

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Re: AMOdel SPAD A2
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2016, 05:26:06 AM »
Bearing in mind that this is only my personal experience of building this kit and that others may have found better methods to build it here is the SMAKR write up. The last link is to an almost current build where the modeller has devised a different method of wing construction. Go to the end of the posts. Happy reading.

Regards, Steve

History
          The Spad A types were one of the more bizarre attempts to improve both the observer’s field of vision from the point of reconnaissance and create a better field of fire than that endured when positioned in the front seat of a tractor biplane. First flight occurred in April or May 1915. The first 10 aircraft were designated A1 and entered service during the summer. Powered by a rotary engine of 80hp they were quickly followed by the A2. This type had enlarged oil shields along the fuselage sides and power was to be provided by the 110hp Le Rhone rotary although some had the 80hp version. The French accepted 42 machines and they served with several units alongside other types. By February 1916 it appears only four aircraft remained at the front and another five at training establishments. The largest number of Spad A types served with the Imperial Russian Air Service. They received 57 A2’s and another ten A4’s which had modified wings but were essentially similar. They served throughout 1916 until the end of Russian involvement in the war. Post war some were later employed by the Bolsheviks during the Russian civil war.
     In the event of a crash the pulpit/nacelle was not the best place to be and the result was often fatal to the observer. However, performance for the time doesn’t seem bad. Those with the 80hp engine could reach 80mph while the 110hp craft had a top speed of 95mph, quite creditable on the Eastern Front at the time.
    While the Spad A types soldiered on the basic tractor design was to be developed to take the Hispano Suiza inline engine and become the famous Spad VII, famed as the mount of Guynemer and the Stork Escadrilles.

The Kit
            The sprues are quite thick and the plastic is light grey. Wing ribs are not over pronounced, in fact on the lower surfaces they are very faint. Wings are too thick for the purist who will thin but I left them be. Fuselage and pulpit, stabilizers, rudder and the undercarriage / cabane struts / oil shield combination are all useable but most of the smaller pieces are very difficult to remove from the sprues without damage and those that did often broke during the clean up process.

Instructions
                  One page of A4 which contains four smaller sections, A5 size. First has a very short potted history, next symbol explanation, paint required and a check off picture of the sprues. Pages three and four are the exploded views and colour scheme. There are no written explanations but they are adequate for the task at hand.

Construction
                   The build starts with the pulpit, two sides, a seat and combined floor and back. The supports are integral and the fit not bad. There is an observation window in the floor and a transparency to fit but my got eaten by the carpet monster and was replaced by a piece of acetate. The gun ring is fitted at this stage but it snapped as I tried to remove it from the sprue. It was replaced with steel wire, similar diameter to 15 amp fuse wire which would do just as well, that had been wrapped around a wood dowel. Diameter required was 0.45ins, about 11mm, and the dowel was filed to size at one end.
               The fuselage was built next. There are rudder pedals, instrument panel, control column and seat. Both sides have raised ribs within the cockpit area. I painted this area wood. Pilot and dash were installed last and the sides brought together. I concentrated on getting a good fit along the top join. This created a small step along the lower joint but a little filing and filler quickly resolved this issue. The engine bulkhead is then fitted preparatory to adding the centre struts / undercarriage combination parts. There are two sides and they appeared to fit very well. At this stage in the proceedings AModel has you adding the engine to the bulkhead, the engine cover, a reinforcing bar and the prop. The latter was left till later but the bar had to be replaced with plastic rod as the kit piece broke. The wheels and spreader bar should also be added at this stage but the spreader refused to separate from the sprue in one piece. This is an open three bar affair and had accident waiting to happen written all over it. Another reviewer on another site had commented that his research indicated that most Spad A types had covered in spreader bars so I replaced this part with a short section of streamlined plastic strut with notches cut out to accommodate the short axles added to the wheels .
       Now the fun really started.  During his review of the Ma Jeanne version of this kit Richard Stracey had indicated that the rather unique combination part that incorporated the cabane struts ready fixed in position allowed the top wing to be installed first. This was the route I followed. First the wings and fuselage et al were painted and decals added to the wings. Then the rigging holes were drilled and wires added. The middle wing struts were very carefully made ready although I managed to snap the end of one which was CA’d back together. The locating holes were widened and deepened slightly and then the top wing was positioned.  The centre struts were added and the cement was allowed to almost set before attempting to add the lower wings. There is only a very small locating guide for the lower wings between the undercarriage legs and the plan was that the centre struts would be located and allowed to start to set when the wing would then be manoeuvred so that the guides would drop into the slot and secured with CA. Well, let me say that the method did work but not this time. The centre interplane struts were too long and had to be removed and shortened. Second attempt seemed to work and the structure was left overnight supported by home made card supports. However, the dawn revealed that the whole wing structure was twisted so it was dismantled and put aside until a calmer frame of mind had been restored.
     Karma had been recovered a month later and wing attachment was approached again. Firstly, I added the stabilizer, taking great care to ensure it was straight so it could be used as a reference point when deciding if the wings were straight. Then I filed the lower wing mating surfaces clean and began a series of dry runs after filing to ensure they would be straight when fixed. I thought they were OK beforehand but I must have been sloppy because they had been out by the proverbial mile. I tried a lower wing and found it now straight and attached it and let it dry while supported by a card support. Then a dry run with the upper wing which was way out when compared with the lower. I decided to add the rudder to help keep everything on an even keel when upside down and decided that the fixed cabane struts were part of the problem. The port cabane struts were gently sawed half way through to allow a touch of flexibility and the corresponding upper wing location holes were enlarged. This allowed a bit more maneouvrability and dry runs showed the upper wing was finally straight. Used cement initially and then CA for a good hold. Only one centre strut now survived, the other breaking during clean up, but it was glued into place and the lower wing was supported until the glue was set. The other centre strut had to be made from plastic rod then the kit was turned upside down and using the strut as a pivot the inner lower wing mating surface was dropped into the locating slot where it was secured with a dab of CA. After checking for alignment the joint was liberally dosed with more superglue and a firm hold was achieved. The outer struts snapped during clean up and more rod replacements were fitted. All joints were reinforced with CA and rigging of the wings was completed before anything else.
      Before tackling the pulpit I added the tail skid, from the kit, and stabilizer support struts, which are rod, not forgetting the prop. An observer was added and then the pulpit was placed up against the lugs on the forward undercarriage legs they are supposed to mate up with. They don’t is the short answer, being slightly narrow but the pulpit legs are also different lengths and set at slightly different angles.  My original plan of splaying out the less acute angled leg wouldn’t work because this leg was the shorter and would have seriously canted the pulpit to one side. Salvation came by adding a plastic rod bar to the rear of the pulpit legs in replacement to the kit version.  This had previously broken, hence it had not been fitted. To be honest I had forgotten about it. The receiving notch on the starboard undercarriage was re-cut a little higher in order to level out the pulpit. A field modification if anyone asks but it doesn’t look bad. Finally, you’ve guessed it, the V shaped locking bar that secured the pulpit to the top wing had broken and was replaced with plastic rod. All that remained was the rest of the gun mount and the mg itself. The gun support is made from the same steel wire as the ring while the mg is actually a kit part. Final touch up of paint and by now I had once again had enough.

Colour Schemes
                       These aircraft were issued to the French in CDL with the metal panels painted to match as near as possible. This came out slightly more yellow than CDL and I have painted mine a 50/50 mixture of Humbrol 7 and Humbrol 121 stone. The fabric areas are 121. Russian aircraft sported the same scheme during WW1 but I suppose it possible that during the Russian civil war that some of those aircraft used by the Reds could have received a coat of green paint, usually referred to as forest green, as well as Red stars.

Decals
          They are bright coloured with a matt finish and went on very well and represent an Imperial aircraft S.54 that forced landed on Austro Hungarian territory on 28 June 1917. The upper and lower wing roundels are different sizes and match the respective wings which is an improvement on RS’s Ma Jeanne but in this kit the roundels intended for the stabilizers are too big and the spares box will have to be raided.
          An interesting alternative could be used on Russian aircraft. Sometimes the original French roundels were left in place, particularly on the wings, and supplemented by Russian roundels on the stabilizers and fuselage sides.

Accuracy
             It is pretty much spot on as far as I can find out. Both the A2 and A4 were dimensionally similar and the kit matches the figures given by Kenneth Munson. The kit also scales up against the plans for the A4 in the Windsock Mini Datafile 4. However, the A2 plans herein have a span just under 30 feet which another reviewer has stated are wrong. The rest of the plans match the kit. Not having the knowledge to argue I’m going to say that I’m happy enough with the dimensions of the kit. However, I am fairly sure that the kit is not a Spad A4 as stated on the box. According to the datafile the A4 had elevators on the upper wings only while the A2 had both upper and lower wings so equipped. The kit has four elevators. The upper wing on the A4 had a centre section to which the outer sections were joined but the A2 had the wing halves joined at a single  central joint. This latter is the format supplied by AModel. So it appears that the Russian A4 is really a Russian A2 so presumably it is the same kit as Ma Jeanne. Because of this I altered the decals slightly by reversing the 4 and the 5 to make S.45, hopefully an A2 as S54 was an A4 shot down in June 1917.

Recommendation
                          Many years ago I kit bashed one of these from an Airfix Spad V11, plastic card wings and a rather ungainly looking pulpit. Suffice to say I have always had a soft spot for this aircraft.  So, yes, I was disappointed with this kit but only because of what I suppose is poor quality plastic which made the smaller parts impracticable in my hands. As I think it’s the only game in town if you want one it has to be tackled but if my experience is common it has to be regarded like a vac form. The major parts are useable but most of the rest will be from the spares or aftermarket. Hopefully, my purchase will prove to be the wrong ‘un from a good family.

Sources
           Windsock Mini Datafile 4 : Spad S.A-2 / S.A-4 ; JM Bruce
            Fighters 1914-19, Blandford, : Kenneth Munson
            Britmodeller build thread. http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=62104

           Internet Modeller : Matt Bittner
http://www.internetmodeler.com/2004/january/aviation/meb_spad.php

http://airfixtributeforum.myfastforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=331&t=31389&start=140

Go to the end for a Spad A4 build.





Offline Pfalz_Phan

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Re: AMOdel SPAD A2
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2016, 06:27:45 PM »
Every time I say "This is the model I am going to build..." the internet sucks me back in ???
So I ordered the A2, I need to get the PE set, plus what is a good reference for this model?

simon

WarrenD

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Re: AMOdel SPAD A2
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2016, 09:21:41 AM »
Every time I say "This is the model I am going to build..." the internet sucks me back in ???

Madness . . . . . madness . . . . .

Wilkommen to the verrücktes Haus Kamerad.  :o 8)


Warren

Offline stevehed

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Re: AMOdel SPAD A2
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2016, 08:28:45 PM »
The only reference material I know of is the WS Mini Data file 4 which is still available.

Regards, Steve

Offline Pfalz_Phan

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Re: AMOdel SPAD A2
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2016, 07:29:33 AM »
Thanks

Offline ALBATROS1234

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Re: AMOdel SPAD A2
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2016, 12:02:40 AM »
And there is stuff in French aircraft of ww1by Davilla and the gang as well as spad 2 seaters book by flying machines press

Offline ALBATROS1234

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Re: AMOdel SPAD A2
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2016, 12:08:57 AM »
Also ww1 aero has intwrior period drawings etc. Can't remember which issue but go to their site and look under journal index then drawings index and you will see which issues have what drawings then buy the back issue from aviattic or ebay

Offline Pfalz_Phan

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Re: AMOdel SPAD A2
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2016, 07:09:00 AM »
Well it arrived today. So off to find who has the PART PE set for this aviation wonder.